Simmons loves his Trade Machine and has come up with another big idea.
There is plenty to ask when it comes to the 2011-12 NBA season - Grantland
Same for overpaying for Anderson Varejao - an elite rebounder/banger/defender who's playing out of his mind right now - if Cleveland ever decided that they were better off converting him into draft picks and tanking 2012 over drifting into no-man's land (the fringe of the lottery, where it becomes impossible to improve your team). The Celtics, Clippers, Mavericks, Rockets, Nuggets and Grizzlies could offer 2012 no. 1's plus expiring contracts plus $3 million plus a young player with potential for Varejao. Hell, if I were Danny Ainge, I'd offer O'Neal's expiring, my 2012 no. 1 AND the Clippers' no. 1 for him.2 Wouldn't you take your chances with a Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Garnett-Varejao quintet this spring? Or am I just a complete homer?
So would you sacrifice two first rounders and a nice chunk of cap space for a legit center with a high motor and a chance at making this team more of a legit contender this year? It is an interesting question.
0 recs | 49 comments
To get any player, there must be some interest coming from his current team
But all this looks like nothing more than Simmons’ fevered imagination. Cavs are playing hard, and I don’t see why they would move their 2nd-best player for a crap-shoot into the future. But what do I know? Anything could happen. That’s the thing though… people are just making up trades out of thin air — presumably BECAUSE anything can happen — but if you’re willing to do that there’s no end to it. Why bother until it’s real? Or at least feasible….
JR99 - February 2, 2012
Also...
Bent - February 2, 2012 via mobile
...
Simmons remarks just how valuable the 2012 picks are in another part of his article because it’s supposedly a really deep draft.
He has a habit of writing teams off and assuming they’ll make a trade when they don’t really need to. He’s basically writing the Cavs off for the next couple of years (because if AV is such good value why wouldn’t they just keep him?) and Boston off after this year, by making a short term trade for one last push at a title while at the same time giving up a chunk of cap room and two first rounders that are crucial factors in the post 2012 reboot.
Bent - February 2, 2012 via mobile
+1
IanMello - February 2, 2012
Good point.
However, where Boston is concerned, you’re only locking up 7 million in the future. So it’s not a hindrance to their “rebuilding” plan, unless you want to argue that it takes them out of the running for Dwight Howard. Which, is a 1/1mil chance anyway.
They could make the trade, bring in Varejao, and still have enough money left to be major players in free agency next year. With Varejao, they’d be looking at a cap number of about 40mil, give or take with guaranteed years left on Rondo, Pierce, Bass, Bradley, Johnson, Moore. Cap number was 58 this year, and I believe is suppose to go up to about 62 next year. That means you have about 22mil to play with, even with Varejao in the fold. Enough to sign 1 max guy + another lower mid level type deal. Or, 2-3 mid level impact players. In that situation, Varejao could become an important piece that allows Boston to “re-tool” on the fly and avoid a rebuild altogether.
Better question is why do the Cavs trade him. And basically they have to consider, if that team will be good enough in 2-3 years to be real contenders. Since that’s about all the time you have left on Varejao being at his prime. If it takes the Irving/Thompson core 4 years to reach an elite level, Varejao is 33 by then, and on the decline, and potentially becomes a money sink stopping you from round out the team.
So, if they don’t think this team, as constituted is enough to get over the top in 2-3 years, you have to trade the vets like Varejao/Jamison for young talent and draft picks that you can develop alongside Irving and Thompson, and get value for them while you still can.
It’s the exact situation OKC faced with Ray Allen, and the reason they traded him to Boston. They had the first pick already, and grabbed Durant, so they have their core for the future (like Cleveland has Irving now) but they couldn’t wait 2-3 years to develop that core when Ray was already into his 30s. So they trade him for good value, and rebuild around a younger core (taking Jeff Green, then building around a Durant/Westbrook/Green core for a few years.)
C'sFan - February 2, 2012
Sorry, meant OKC had second pikc with Durant.
C'sFan - February 2, 2012
I agree...
…with the point you (and someone else) made that AV would not handcuff them that much because his contract would be easily tradeable if necessary. I was more making a point about Simmons’ thought process when he floats these ideas.
For example, I lost count of the proposed trades he suggested for Indiana, all of which involved them giving up talent to contending teams and slowing down their own rebuilding process…then the season starts and he says something like “I continue to like this Pacers team” – so why did you repeatedly suggest they take it apart then?
Sometimes we forget that the other team is trying to win too.
Varajeo would be a good add, but they’d need to weigh up exactly what they were giving up very carefully.
Bent - February 2, 2012
Probably the stupidest decision in the history of the NBA
….was Portland taking Greg Oden over Durant that year. I remember shaking my head at the time. Oden is OBVIOUSLY a pituitary case… gigantism… and guys like that, who are big unnaturally — i.e., because of a disease, as opposed to nature — are always, always prone to injuries and illness. Yao was another one like that.
JR99 - February 2, 2012
Sign me up....
AV is what we need in the middle. He would give us a nice trade asset this summer. He would not hurt our flexibility even though he reduces our cap space. And he may be someone you want to keep going forward with whoever we sign this summer. This season is not over and AV and Rondo would be huge shots in the arm for this team going forward. Ray, Paul, Rondo, KG, AV, Pietrus, Bass and the Kids would be a tough out for all the teams in the east.
celty86 - February 2, 2012
Would you make the trade that Simmons proposed?
I was thinking of answering NO, But I think with O’ Neal playing like 2 3 games then out another 2 3 games… I would consider that trade even if it includes our no 1 pick.
It would nice to see an starting five of Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Garnett-Varejao
celtics2011 - February 2, 2012
I wouldn't give both picks.
But JO + 1st round + young player (Moore/Bradley), you could convince me of that, definitely.
C'sFan - February 2, 2012
no!
we stil cant win banner 18 this year without integrating new guys into the system lets jst w8 till next season for total rebuild.
reb0undwins18 - February 2, 2012
That's the beauty of Varejau though...
Which is ironic, cause he’s anything but beautiful.
But as a Basketball player, he’s a 0 integration type guy. He sets picks, hits wide open 15 fters, and players with a constant motor. You can basically just throw him out there and say “go do what you do” and he’d help the team, just with his rebounding and effort.
The only integration you need, is the defensive rotations, so maybe you have an argument there. But I think he’d pick that up pretty quick, he’s a good defender and has a good basketball sense on that end of the floor.
C'sFan - February 2, 2012
Would love to have him....
But I feel just for the remaining part of the season. Just a renter. Long term….not really.
LarryBird33 - February 2, 2012
i rather trade pierce and rondo or ray allen perhaps than the c's future 1rst round pick's next season.
reb0undwins18 - February 2, 2012
yes ur right LarryBird33.
reb0undwins18 - February 2, 2012
No
Btw, I need a new pitchfork…and some torches.
Casperian - February 2, 2012
how about finding a third team?
a third team with cap space and a need for a big that would send a pick to CLE, so that we could maintain 1 of our 1st’s??? I read Pacers are looking for a back-up center and JO wanted to end his career in Indy.
JO to Indy
Varejao to Boston
BOS 1st and 2nd round picks and IND 1st or rather 2nd to CLE
though I doubt that Cavs are willing to part with Andy just yet.
stes - February 2, 2012
and I believe that having Varejao wouldn’t kill the flexibility. the bigs are always in demand, so you could swap him for future picks or someone younger
stes - February 2, 2012
+1
I think a 3rd team in this trade would work. I really like the idea of AV on our team for this year. JO? I’d still part with him in a minute.
vgarcia890 - February 2, 2012
no
we make him look like Moses Malone but heck no…….3 more yrs at serious money for a role player??? I think not
Motown - February 2, 2012
No, not worth it
DA is preserving the 25M caps space for a reason. Trading him would ruin his plan and giving up a 1st round pick is not worth it. Maybe if its JO+Daniels for Varejao would be fine.
elvyn - February 2, 2012
It's funny I said this the other night, except for the picks
Get it done without the picks and I’d be in.
rickyfan3.0... - February 2, 2012
I have always loved Varejao...
and have said many times he would look real good wearing Celtic green.
I would not want to give up both picks to get him though.
If we could give up JO expiring contract, some other minor players expiring contracts and maybe just 1 draft pick I think that would be a decent deal for a player like Varejao.
He is young and would be a sold big man to add to the front court for this year and especially as the C’s seek to rebuild and I think would make a ideal Celtic with his hard work ethic.
fordescort - February 2, 2012
+1
Like a lot of folks, I like Varejao’s game. Always liked how tough he plays and certainly I think he’d be a great fit with the Celtics. But I would not give up 2 first round picks for him. Maybe one. But definitely not two.
mmmmm - February 2, 2012
Agreed.
C'sFan - February 2, 2012
very good role player
too much to give up for a role player
joeb - February 2, 2012
He would be a great addition but....
I like this team and do not want to see major changes. We are just now finding our legs and chemistry. Let’s get to the playoffs healthy with this squad and do some damage. I think the East is wide open. The Heat blew it against the Bucks last night and the Bulls looked mortal against the Sixers. The Bulls are in a bit of trouble in that Deng is out awhile and Rip is out indefinitely. Rose is not 100%. They cannot win a title without Rip and Deng. Sixers? We’ll see. Playoffs bring a different pressure that the regular season (ask LeBron) and those guys have limited playoff experience. The Pacers? Ditto. The Celtics are learning to play with each other, the vets look good, Bass and Pietrus are playing great off the bench, and Moore and Bradley are looking better. I will be highly disappointed if we include Moore or JJ in a trade.
JPV - February 2, 2012
obviously.
Cle will do it for clear space and the 2 first around the 20’ plus their first. This year will make a good year to them to rebuild. But what about us. How is gona be our cap space (IF) this happen?
celt4ever - February 2, 2012
People are willing to give Kendrick Perkins 8-9 million on one leg, but no Verajao?
Does not make sense.
Verajao is much better than Perkins, he’s also the league leader in offensive rebounds.
He can run the floor with Rondo and Green, play very solid low block defense and excellent help defense.
He may be a role player but how many 7 footers do you get that are as good as him and don’t get paid 8 million+ per year? (that aren’t on rookie contracts).
Adding him makes us a legitimate contender this year.
We can also keep him if he’s working out next year, or trade him for some big pieces or picks or as part of a larger trade for the superstar we’ve been craving to take us to the promised land.
Signing him would mean we’d still have enough room for a big free agent as well next year.
I don’t know how many Cavs games people watch but if the NBA all stars were voted on performance and not popularity, he would make the coaches team- and that’s no joke.
He’s the MVP of that Cavs team, and although they suck, he would be an unreal addition to our team.
If we got him for JO+ 2 mid/late picks it’s a STEAL and Danny pulls the trigger immediately.
He can be used to acquire back equal or higher value after he plays for a winning Boston Celtics team in the playoffs- his life would be so much easier with Rondo passing him the ball and KG helping him on defense.
Perkins or Verajao for 8 million? I know who I’d take.
Chambers - February 2, 2012
You make some good points even though I made my case against getting him. . I just hope that DA does not include Bradley, Moore or JJ in any trade for him.
JPV - February 2, 2012
I agree with much of what you say.
For me its not the money. I just would not give up 2 first round picks for him.
The question up above isn’t whether we’d like Varejao – because I sure would – but whether we would accept the trade proposal of Simmons.
Two first round picks is extremely valuable. Depending on how the draft shapes up, that either doubles your chance to snag a surprise superstar out of the mid-lower half of the 1st round OR you can trade them together to move up in the draft and get a more definite shot at a potential superstar.
This is looking like a pretty strong draft class. Two first round picks in that draft is, imho, worth more than Varejao.
I’d probably trade a 1st and a 2nd for him, though.
mmmmm - February 2, 2012
Agree fully with your comments:
“He can run the floor with Rondo and Green, play very solid low block defense and excellent help defense.
He may be a role player but how many 7 footers do you get that are as good as him and don’t get paid 8 million+ per year? (that aren’t on rookie contracts).
Adding him makes us a legitimate contender this year.
We can also keep him if he’s working out next year, or trade him for some big pieces or picks or as part of a larger trade for the superstar we’ve been craving to take us to the promised land”
fordescort - February 2, 2012
+1
To me it is a no brainer – he would fill the gap (rebounding) in the short term, longer term he could develop further.
DH is dream land and I don’t see many better 7 ft+ Centre’s in the league.
Derekg49 - February 2, 2012
Cavs' MVP is Irving, not Varejao
Irving is already playing great basketball, and will prob reach elite level this year, or next. But otherwise agree. But the main point for me is…. what makes anyone think that the Cavs are AT ALL interested in this? If we’re gonna make up trades, there are dozens of them to invent. I don’t get why we bother…. I guess it’s fun, tho.
JR99 - February 2, 2012
completely agree
mmmmm - February 2, 2012 via iPhone app
Varejao
isn’t an legitimate big though his hustle can make up for it
calc - February 2, 2012
He leads the league in offensive rebounds, sorry he's a legit 7 footer.
Chambers - February 2, 2012
i'd love to have him..
but i’ll stick it out with JO for now..
greenlion - February 2, 2012
I Really Like Varajao
He makes himself a valuable player because of his hustle. I’ve only seen him play against the Celtics. But, it seems to me that he kills us until it’s time to make a big play or a big shot. He doesn’t seem to do that well in crunch time. I’d love to have him on my team, but not as the starting Center and not at a price.
TrueGreen - February 2, 2012
clean cut
i would agree on this trade with the condition that Varejao cuts his hair, clean cut, before wearing the celtic uniform. he looks like a bitch with that hair.
rcpacquiao - February 2, 2012
Reunited?
http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Cleveland+Cavaliers+v+Los+Angeles+Lakers+MKlIhbYGZnHl.jpg
Pietrus & Cream - February 2, 2012 via mobile
No hes not worth 2 R1 picks in such a deep draft
there is a reason no team gave even a slight thought to hiring simmons as a GM.
Karasu - February 2, 2012
Money and Perkins
NO!!! For his money, not mention the picks, we could have held on to Perk. too much Cap space to waste at this time of year. would not improve our chances for a championship. Maybe later in the late summer.
Moses Freeman Jr. - February 2, 2012
YES!!
With one caveat: that the C’s are healthy going into the deadline.
Varejao is a huge bargain folks! He’s much better than Perk. And the C’s window is closing fast. But, in my opinion, if they can keep up the momentum they’ve built in the last couple of weeks, the window is still open. This team looks REALLY hungry. But they need an extra piece. And as has been mentioned previously, Varejao is a guy who could fit in seamlessly.
I know that this draft is deep, but two picks in the twenties plus, say, Etwan and Steamer (and JO), is not all that much to give up for a guy who’s under contract for a few more years.
I sort of agree with some who suspect that the Cavs have no reason to make this deal. But by the time they’re ready to contend, he’ll be 32/33 and a FA. Much better to go the OKC route: build a really solid base of talent over the next couple of years on the cheap, then lure talented FAs.
One more thing: the odds of them being able to rebuild with their cap space next year into contenders are very slim, IMO. After DW and DH, it doesn’t look good and it will be a seller’s market.
Furthermore, the C’s could use their bird rights to re-sign KG, Bass and RA, with exceptions left over to fill out the roster (do they have the full mid-level if they use their bird rights, even if they’re under the cap?). A core of RR, RA, P, KG, AV, Bass, Bradley and JJJ plus 2-3 rotation guys could be very formidable. Let them take a few more stabs at banner 18, and rebuild after 13/14, when AV and PP’s contracts come up.
The window is still open. I think we take for granted how great it is to have a team that can actually contend. Get it done, Danny.
theham - February 2, 2012
"two picks in the twenties plus, say, Etwan and Steamer (and JO), is not all that much"
I could not possibly disagree more with that statement.
mmmmm - February 2, 2012
Well, obviously it would be a decent haul for the Cavs, but they’d be giving up a borderline top-10 starting center (find me ten better) under (a very favorable) contract for the next three years. And go check out the drafts from 2006-2010. The best player taken in the twenties during those drafts: Rajon Rondo. And it’s not even close. No one else has been to an all-star game. Roughly half of them aren’t even rotation players (or still in league for that matter). Maybe a quarter of them would get 15+ minutes a game for a playoff quality team. Draft picks are overrated, especially when you have enough pieces in place already to contend.
theham - February 2, 2012
I'll do it in an instant
No need for J’ONeal. Two first-round picks? How many good rookies are there nowadays? They all suck when they begin playing in the league!
SparzWizard - February 2, 2012
Varejao;:Trade
Varejao (71/2 mil,4yrs vs Oneal 61/4 mil,1yr, plus celtics 2012 #1 , Clips 2012 #1,
switch - February 2, 2012
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