Jonathan Daniel - Getty Images
Bark worse than bite?
I've always thought of this team as being tough. They have a snarl and a swagger about them that makes me remember fondly the days of heading to the Finals and socking people in the mouth on the way there. We lost some of that toughness when Perkins was traded and perhaps father time (and roster turnover) has eroded more of it than we'd like to admit. This isn't something that can be easily quantified, but Steve Bulpett takes a swing at it - focusing on rebounding (which is, of course, a reflection of hustle - if not grind it out toughness).
Celtics keep flunking physical exams - BostonHerald.com
The maddening part of this is that the Celts are shooting 45.6 percent and holding their opponents to 41.7 percent from the floor. But when it comes time to get physical and get the ball, they falter. And the general lack of consistent toughness translates through one of the game’s basic truths: The team playing harder gets the benefit of the calls. So when you consider opponents have 80 more rebounds than the Celtics this season, it won’t surprise you to know that foes have taken 73 more free throws. And the board numbers are even more concerning when you take into account the aforementioned 41.7 percent. That would seem to mean more chances for rebounds when the Celts should, at least in theory, be in better position than the opponent to get the ball. But the problem is, with the glass disadvantage, the C’s have also taken 73 fewer field goal attempts. "We’re not going to win if we don’t change that," coach Doc Rivers said. "There’s no way to sugarcoat that."
That's not good news because looking up and down this roster I can't tell you who is going to step up and start pulling down rebounds at a higher rate.
0 recs | 29 comments
not tough enough?
yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.
duh. Its been for years for heavens sake. We got out toughed by the Fakers and Gasol and Bynum and Kobe and Fisher in a 7th game in the finals. It was disgusting. And what did Danny do about it? Brought on a bunch of guys who were too old and he traded Perk. Thats what he did.
I think Rondo is tough enough But he is too inconsistent and he has disappeared in big games. I sure don’t think KG is tough enough really in any way at all. Ray has disappeared in big games. Paul is tough enough in every way we can measure it. Its not enough.
Posey, Perk, House, Powe and PJ Brown were all tough and there all gone
wahz - February 18, 2012
where is powe is he on a team or a free agent we need a guy like that back some heart and toughness
lohaus#54 - February 19, 2012
Its not just toughness
1. Lack of size matters (sorry for that line…)
2. Lack of athleticism matters too (but don’t tell larry Bird…)
3. Lack of emphasis on rebounding
There’s an old saying by coaches: Your job is not done when the shot goes up." Yet if you DVR a celtic game watch how many times a Celtic will just stand and watch as the ball goes up. Rondo – the other night – gambled for a steal, then his man shot. He stayed where he was the entire time after the shot, including during the struggle / tapping of the loose ball. Allen is terrible at this too. Even more, when a shot goes up on offense (lets say from the top of the key), NOBODY moves or improves their angle at a rebound. Likely a ball shot from there will bounce out toward the free throw line, so guys on the block that are boxed out should roll to the middle to increase their chance at a rebound. Rodman was the best at this. Its more about effort than toughness. Pietrus was the only guy vs the bulls that was really battling for rebounds. Other teams have guys (Noah, Gasol, etc) who dive to the rim when their guy penetrates the lane
- kind of following their wake -and many times will get the tip or follow-up slam. Again, watch how our optimistic Celtics are when this happens— they stand and watch, hoping the shot will go in. It really is pathetic if you just watch on tape. Go ahead and focus on just that if you have an hour to kill… it truly may make you sick.P stoff - February 18, 2012
Toughness you say.....
“To hit a target… is to exercise the inner strength. Indeed there are two kinds of strengths. The outer strength is obvious: it fades with age and succumbs to sickness. Then there is the ch’i, the inner strength. Everyone possesses it, too. But it is indeed much more difficult to develop. The inner strength lasts through every heat and every cold. Through old age and beyond.”
This man has both
Master Po - February 18, 2012
We can show pics of Rondos elbow too. They certainly got to were they have in life with a high level of toughness.
The problem is we don’t have tough, skilled, physical big guys who are healthy frequently. Maybe that is a better way to say it. we never replaced bench toughness. Posey was an instigator. When we lost Posey we needed a guy LIKE him, a Bowen type .Or we needed to get Verajo, or Noah. I don’t like throwing out names knowing we can’t get these guys. The issue is we lost tough guys and didn’t replace them.
wahz - February 19, 2012
agree
Master Po - February 19, 2012
but can he rebound?
P stoff - February 18, 2012
sad
Master Po - February 18, 2012
agreed, but can he rebound
P stoff - February 18, 2012
sad
SparzWizard - February 18, 2012
Tough enough...
But they can’t rebound. As dead as JO is on the floor, he will bang in there with the tough dudes. So as KG and Bass. Problem is, they can’t finish, can’t rebound. Not enough lift anymore from JO and KG. Bass is a little undersized.
Rebounding is THE FIRST thing needed to be addressed. C’s are holding opponents to 41% shooting, that’s great. But no defensive play is complete until the glass has been cleaned. Sadly, our bigs is having a hard time doing that.
Yoki Rivero - February 18, 2012
I believe....
They are no longer mentally tough. I keep on seeing the lack of effort, lack of focus, lack of hustle….
Their facial expression and body language seem to indicate mediocrity is already acceptable.
LarryBird33 - February 19, 2012
ditto i agree
go boston go you are #1
blame some of it on not being healthy
7tony2 - February 19, 2012
Sorry
not taking a shot at RA— who is one of the finest men in the game today. The article was on rebounding, however. Yes, toughness too, but i made it clear it was more about effort than toughness. No doubt RA is tough, and if we were talking about class, he would tops on the list. My comments meant no disrespect to RA but I’ll use this analogy. i play golf, and have played against some much finer and tougher men than myself… but it doesn;t mean their going to beat me.
P stoff - February 19, 2012
understood...i didn't realize the focus of the article was primarily about rebounding..I should read closer
no worries P Stoff
Master Po - February 19, 2012
Beat the Pistons
Beat the Pistons and the story might start to change, but yeah you have to wonder if this team has it.
p-peazy - February 19, 2012
During our potential 9 game winning streak this season...
We were all jumping for joy, cruising to the playoffs.
After losing to the Lakers (not to mention the Raptors as well), everything started falling apart.
SparzWizard - February 19, 2012
Better rebounding will help, but there's more going on
Celtics FG%:
2007-08: 47.5
2009-10: 48.3
2011-12: 45.6
45.6% FG% may sound ok compared to league average, but it’s significantly lower than this team put up in the years they seriously contended.
JR99 - February 19, 2012
They're shooting worse because they're doing more shooting from the perimeter
Same reason they’re getting fewer free throws… not enough aggression to the hoop. Not enough aggression is same reason their rebounding is off…. and what Doc calls the 50-50 game.
JR99 - February 19, 2012
agree
Master Po - February 19, 2012
You all are missing a key point
It’s on Doc somewhat. The Celtics are not coached to hit the boards. They are coached to get back on D. What crap to imply our guys aren’t tough enought. C’mon, Perk didn’t rebound big numbers. Ever! He didn’t block big numbers. Ever! He didn’t take charges. Ever!
Rondo is a poor shooter. He is moody. But tough? He’s tough as nails.
If Doc said “Crash the boards. If they get a few easy transitions, so what!” there would be no question about Celts being tough. Then it would be they aren’t getting back fast enough. It’s an old team. It can’t be both.
Wildblu1 - February 19, 2012
You're right, they are coached that way.... but not executing as well anymore
ORR (Offensive Rebound Rate), DRR (Defensive Rebound Rate):
2007-08: 26.60, 74.42
2009-10: 22.85, 73.83
2011-12: 22.33, 72.47
It’s not just their offensive rebounds that have fallen, their defensive ones have too. Not sure it’s so much about being “tough” per se, as it is about hustle and energy.
JR99 - February 19, 2012
agree with Wilblu!!!!!exactly ...very well said..
Master Po - February 19, 2012
it's not toughness, it is age.
Everything that has gone wrong with this team is due to the age of it’s core player. We depend on PP and Ray to be our closers but they cannot close to the level the could a couple of years ago.
PP is supposed to be the other guy on the floor besides Rondo who can create shots for himself and others. He can still do that and even do it well but he cannot do it consistently.
KG and JO are supposed to be our rebounders and the last line of defense but neither has any lft and is a step slow on their rotations..
I know it is hard to let go so many looks for excuses other then what is right in front of their face. The Big Three got old and aren’t the players they were two years ago(does anybody really object to that?). JO was broken down before he got here. That is four of our five starters and that isn’t going to get it done. These guys should be nice roll players at this stage of their careers not the guys you are depending on as the foundation of your team.
CelticsFanNC - February 19, 2012
sure glad Danny Ainge had a transition plan for this.....
Master Po - February 19, 2012
The transition plan....
Is the cap space and was supposed to be the Clips pick and Jeff Green.
Did you know the Clips were going to get Chris Paul and make that pick a whole lot lower then was originally thought?
Did you know many of the best prospective FA"s would either extend or get traded?
Also losing Jeff Green for the season cannot be under stated. Did you see that coming?
If you knew these things were coming then you should be running the Celtics.
Sometimes things don’t go as you plan. Sometimes they do, like in 2007-08.
CelticsFanNC - February 19, 2012
I wasn't talking about a 9 month window of opportunity or lack thereof....did you know that?
Master Po - February 19, 2012
The big Three's...
longevity as a viable title contender put the future on hold for two years longer then anyone thought it would. What exactly was the plan when you have no cap space and are drafting late in the first round? The only upgrades Ainge could make as long as we still had the Big Three were vet minimum signings, MLE signings and trades. As long as we were tied to the Big Three this was our reality.
All of your criticism of him is hindsight. Most of his moves made sense at the time they were made. All the complainers are the same. He made this mistake or that mistake. hello. There is no such things as a perfect GM. Ainge is better then most regardless of your constant whining about him.
CelticsFanNC - February 19, 2012
points per possession
Rebounds are nice. But points are nicer. Right now, our problems are clearly in scoring points on offense.
45% fg% isn’t going to cut it. We need to be generating higher percentage shots.
mmmmm - February 19, 2012 via iPhone app
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