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Ainge: We're Not A Contending Team Right Now

This is a couple of days old now, but the comments are worth discussing (even if they aren't exactly a revelation).

Ainge said flat out that the Celtics aren't a contending team "right now."

Ainge: Celtics had waiver claim on Lin

As for his own roster, Ainge said that he was encouraged by his team's defense, but acknowledged that, "Our team has been very up and down, very inconsistent."

"Our offense has been under par," Ainge said. "We are turning the ball over too much and we're making a pretty good percentage of our shots, but the turnovers have really hurt is this year, again. We've shown signs of playing very good basketball against very good teams periodically, but not consistently. Our team, as it is right now, is not a team that we feel like is a contending team the way we're playing. And they have to step it up, and this road trip will be a very good test for us."

Of course he goes on to say that he and Doc and the players all love the team and believe in the team. But it sure sounds like he's challenging his team with the coming road trip much like he challenged the team a few weeks back after their early season struggles. You don't have to read between the lines too much to see the subtle threat here. If the team can't turn things around soon, Danny will pick up the phone and put out the For Sale sign.

Star-divide

Ainge said that he's fielded less calls this years from teams seeking trades, which he said was a result of teams waiting to see where they stand. The trade deadline is March 15 and players who were signed in the offseason can't be traded until March 1. Ainge said that he has explored both long-term and short-term possibilities.

Long term trade possibilities would almost have to involve a member of the Big 4, so without coming out and saying it, he's kind of admitting to talking to teams about those guys. Which should surprise exactly no one since he's said on many occasions that nobody on the roster is untouchable.

I still doubt that we can get enough in return for our stars to justify blowing it up, but I guess we'll see what the market offers up.

0 recs  |  80 comments

Comments

It's clear we need size

It’s also clear Ray Allen has been the best player on our team this year, or maybe Rondo. But we seriously, we need offensive rebounding so badly. If we blow it up, focus on size down low so we can have a Gasol, Bynum combo except with better bench bigs. It’s clear KG is on his last leg and I love his personality, but I’ve realized he’ll help on the defensive end and spread the floor on offense but were not getting aggressiveness on the boards from him. JO is useless, occasionally. I wish we had something ridiculous like Tyson Chandler and Marc Gasol lol. Two real guys we can throw alley oops to, along with bass and wilcox

I'm not sure it's so clear

Yes the Celtics need size. But Pierce has by far the best net +/- per 48 minutes on the team.

Ray Allen had a good start but then declined

That being said he’s still a great shooter but nothing more than that. The best player this season has to be either rondo or pierce yet both have been inconsistent

big men??

How about Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Food for thought…….

Come back to Planet Earth.
His words carry weight that would break a less interesting man's jaw.
Not being a contender.

The fact that Jeff Green was lost for the season because he needed heart surgery pretty much ruined the Celtics chances this season..

tell us something we don't know danny..

but hey, they are the celtics…switch on…switch off…switch on…

Actually, he so couched what he said--"with the way they are playing now"--that not a soul could legitimately disagree.

But he hasn’t actually said that they couldn’t start to play well enough to be contenders. He could have been any politician’s press secretary with that statement.

You could put ANY PG in the league on the Celtics & they still are NOT contenders. Rondo is NOT the problem, this team is just too old to do it consistently anymore. This Sunday, the Celtics might look like the Celtics of old but they can’t do it all the time anymore. It’s reality, face it.
& I’m tired of people always asking to trade Rondo. You guys act as if Deron Williams has NO flaws in his game & ATTITUDE. You think Rondo’s “ball hogging” (Gimme a freakin’ break!) is bad? Wait till you see D-Will. You think Rondo is turnover prone? Wait till you see D-Will. You think Rondo butt heads with coaches? Wait till you see D-Will.
What I’m trying to say is…We’ve got a REALLY, REALLY good PG in Rondo, whose not even in his prime & is improving & has almost the same post season experience as Fisher & Billups. People don’t appreciate all the things Rondo does that other PG’s DON’T.
The grass isn’t always greener on the other side (Other PGs).

I totally agree.

Rondo isn’t the problem, he is going to be part of the solution.

+1

Rondo sure has his flaws and I can understand ppl get frustrated by his lack of improvement in shooting (to rondos credit there is some even not so much improvement and this guy got injured during playoffs and had to stay away from basketball for months). But, blaming this teams unsuccessful season on rondo is just ridiculous.

I still doubt that we can get enough in return for our stars to justify blowing it up, but I guess we’ll see what the market offers up.

Probably right about not getting enough back, but aside from Rondo who is young and could certainly get a quality player back, the other three still have value and could help another team out for a couple of years respectively most likely. Allen still can run off screens and hit shots and knock down threes, Pierce can still create off the dribble and get his shoot and plays good D and KG can still hit a post up turnaround and plays good D (more in spurts for both these days), but he could help a team still. Just doing his job, but probably will just ride it out with the big four though.

If they're not contenders and what can be got back for them (including $30M+ of cap space in place of Pierce over the next two years)

is a help rather than hindrance to the rebuilding, isn’t that enough? If anything shipping one or two of them out now could simultaneously give the young guys more opportunity to grow AND improve their draft position in a good draft.

I mean, what is the threshold, beyond that, of trading them in that circumstance?

PS Of course, it's possible Danny won't be able to find any trades for his old guys that help the future.

In which case, letting the others expire and holding on to Pierce for another year could be his best (non)move.

I agree, DA is certainly working on it and has been. I think KG and Allen should...

be the ones to go first if possible. I would not trade Rondo unless I got back someone as good—DWill for ex and I certainly would not trade him for an older Gasol; not that many good young post up big men out there really—LA, Al Jefferson, Lopez, Hibbert has gotten better, Pekovic has potential and has looked really good lately.

Agree w Mub33b

This blog is a vent for the ADHD NBA fans. “Trade Rondo now” until he has a Triple Double. “Pierce stinks” until he has one of those Pierce 6 min streaks. They can’t tell the difference betwen short term and long term. Fantasy league hasn’t helped with this affliction. We had a guy last year screaming to get Nocioni. But ADHD fans have to have a place to go too so, Mub33b, don’t let it annoy you.

The turnovers are scary because you can’t put it on just one guy. My own mental replay tells me Pierce is the most critical TO guy and that has to do with losing a step I think. That’s scary because we have big money tied up for two more years with him. Ray and KG aren’t worth their salaries this year but over their tijme in Boston they have been valuable and entertaining.

But Danny is right on it. We aren’t going far in the playoffs the way we are playing now. But the NY Giants were’nt going anywhere this far into their season either. This current team with old veterans and good new bench guys and decent draft guys (props to Danny for that) has the potential to make a “last round-up” run in the playoffs. As a fan, that’s what I want to see, rather than a player dump in March.

The only last round-up happening this year

is the round-up of the old nags headed to the glue factory.

The NY Giants are not an old team.
neither are the Celtics

Once you look past Ray, KG & JO,

Assuming Danny holds on to our current youth and uses his draft picks, the Cs could enter next year with 10 players under 27.

Reynoldo Balkman

Was waived by the Knicks. He’s a guy who can get some rebounds, run the floor, and play in the post. Thoughts?

It's gonna be interesting to find out who the C's are getting before Mar. 15th... if any.
"We are not a contending team right now" .....well Danny....it's your team.... you built it ....so whose fault is it?

Who let an aging big three stand alone without building young really skilled players around them ready to make a transition as the big three fades? It was you Danny!

Who signed these players and how many of them help build for the future or even helped while they were here? It was you Danny who put us here and built what we have (or don’t have) down the road!

Jermaine O’Neal

Rasheed Wallace

Shelden Williams

Mikki Moore

Patrick O’Bryant

Troy Murphy

Gabe Pruitt

Nate Robinson

Chris Johnson

MIchael Finley

Stephon Marbury

Carlos Arroyo

Bill Walker

J. R. Giddens

and the list goes on and on.

A “great GM” not only can secure a “Big Three” (maybe with a little help from a worse GM like McHale) but can also begin to plan ahead and build AND DEVELOP some young talent to slowly replace the Big Three as they fade. As it stands now, even if Ray Allen and KG re-sign for a minimum amount to help us next year come off the bench it’s not like Danny has steadily built a young team ready to even remotely be competitive.

I am not so sure you can effectively “blow something up” that has slowly rotted from the core for quite some time

and yes I broke my promise about not complaining about this team until the season is over but I get sick of hearing from Danny in mid-season. If we’re not competitive and we are not consistent then either go fix it or shut up. I m not sure he can fix it. I hope I am wrong and I know many of you will now just call me a hater.

I have not given up hope on this team as stranger things have happened. I will watch and root for victory because we could become the Jeremy Lin team of the NBA this year – well sort of . I hope I am proven as wrong as rain. …and maybe someone can RESPECTFULLY point out how I am wrong. But don’t be disrespectful….I am just stating my opinion without saying " I have this all figured out or using the right perspective"

Peace

*re-post* So, how would YOU have done things differently?

Danny tried to make a move in the direction of youth, with last seasons acquisition of Jeff Green. Simply, acquiring young talent isn’t as easy as you make it seem. Especially when you consistently draft outside of the lottery, and try to put a contending team on the floor every night.

Id respectfully disagree except I respectfully agree.

We’ve needed a post presence AND ways to spread the floor for years. What did we do about it? Not much. We took chances with aging and often injured vets( Shaq also) and never got a sweet shooting wing back up until this year(Pietrus), and this year is well beyond the original window.

For reasons I can’t comprehend at all, Danny started looking forward to this summer and made every decision based on it, since KG’s first summer.

Singe and Talent

I think Ainge is a great GM for having reeled in both KG and Allen through trading AND surrounding them with a bench (not to mention gettIng Rondo and Perm). But somewhere between the limiting circumstances of draft position and salary cap, and Ainge’s own limitations, this team was a tough one to improve upon. I worried at the time of the trades he’d be hamstrung with aging veterans for years. I just don’t see how he could’ve dealt or drafted much better than he’s done. The Perk/Green trade was a mistake, but partly for reasons unforeseen — including the Clippers’ trade for Paul. That’s why I prefer and bad medicine now to rebuild for later if that’s what it will take, but even that seems unlikely given what we’d get in return right now.

give me a break

think danny ainge is a bad GM? look at what kupchak has done to the lakers with the same payroll – laker fans would kill to have the c’s bench.
and most of the players he’s gotten have been off the scrapheap – what do you expect from minimum salary guys? who else was there to sign? not his fault shaw and delonte were injured. not his fault KG blew out his knee.
and no, i didn’t like the rasheed or JO moves, but then again, big men are always expensive, and $6M doesn’t get you much.
so what do you want from your GM?
someone who will throttle the team with bad contracts like otis smith in orlando?
danny has a PLAN. like it or not he’s done well in preparing for this moment, and that means we’ll be in contention again that much faster. have some appreciation, this isn’t the pre-salary cap celtics, and this isn’t theo epstein using john henry’s open wallet. ainge has done well with what he’s had.

Yep, right now I'd place Danny in the top quadrant of GMs: good, but not the best.

But if he manages to land DH in FA this summer—when his stiffest competition may be his reupping in Orlando—then he’s right back up within the top 2 or 3 again.

we will probably never change each others minds....and that's OK....opinions are what make the world go around...that and money

in this case only Danny can change my opinion of him and he could care less about what me or any other fan thinks.

I like respectful disagreement and debate…what I hate are people who think there are no possibilities but their own and they couldn’t possibly be wrong.

I don't mind your consistently negative statements about Danny, Po, because the other half of your posts crack me up with your humor.

As to Kraidstar’s response, I’d say it was pretty substantial presenting his view on the question, including areas where he thinks Danny has made good moves.

His/her opening “Give me a break” is the only rhetorical flourish that could be considered disrespectful, but I think it is only a statement that he/she passionately disagrees with you (nothing ad hominem)—and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Just my opinion, of course, but I think it’s best to approach opinion boards with the idea of being open to a particularly good argument that one hadn’t considered having the potential of changing one’s mind, at least to some degree.

*bad moves*
Kraidstar presented his case well and I was not offended by his phrase "give me a break" in the least

I was making a general statement

I have a semi-open mind considering my age ….I just have not heard an argument yet that make me want to start flappin my pig wings with joy over old Danny Boy….

Peace, friend…Po

Not even...

He brought us as championship and 6 minutes away from a second?

You’re a tough nut to crack… but never the twain shall meet on Danny. This much we know.

Joey Crawford

officiated that “6 minutes away from a second” game, don’t forget. Were we ever close…

I feel a group hug coming on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfeccqUVkkE&feature=related

you wish ...LOL
LOL. Anything to throw Ralph and Alice in there.

I agree that Danny Ainge should shut up. I don’t think he can motivate this roster by talking about trades. The core four are champions, and they will feel that they have failed if anyone of them is traded. I’m pretty sure especially KG will feel that way.

I am however pretty sure that Danny knows what level of talent he wants to replace the big 3. That kind of players have probably not been available, since we have mostly drafted in the 20’s, and we have only had role player rentals besides our starters. The only young player who has left this team, that I think Danny has regrets about, is Tony Allen. He might also have wanted to keep Perk at a reasonable contract, but that’s about it. And he did get something for Perk (though not the love of the Celtic Nation).

No teams can be contenders forever

Lets be fair to Ainge

Except for JO and RW (these two ESP RW in the playoffs contributed more then what ppl seem to appreciate here), there was not much better that any GM could do put in Ainges situation.

I really can’t get over the signing of Dooling over Delonte though.

So, how would YOU have done things differently?

Danny tried to make a move in the direction of youth, with last seasons acquisition of Jeff Green. Simply, acquiring young talent isn’t as easy as you make it seem. Especially when you consistently draft outside of the lottery, and try to put a contending team on the floor every night.

Reply fail,

to Master Po

What ? Reply Fail?
My first comment was meant to be a reply to your last comment.

However, I forgot to hit reply. Therefore, it was a reply failure.

Asking me what I would have done differently is like asking an accountant how he would built and engineered a better bridge across the river

I can only look at this as a fan who has been watching the Celtics since 1968. I am not getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to be a GM. Obviously hindsight is easy but there is lots of hindsight here that demonstrates repeatable mistakes that help me formulate my own opinion of some degree of failure. It doesn’t make me correct and I am certainly in the minority on this opinion.

That isn't a good analogy,

because you do have hindsight to help you form your argument. I mean, you have a strong opinion that Danny let the roster get old, so you must therefore have strong opinions on what you would have done differently. So, if you could go back and fix what Danny did wrong, tell me, what would you do?

"To every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, easy to understand and wrong." – H. L. Mencken....sound familiar?

I’ll think a bit on it …..in the meantime the bridge is seems weak and unstable and I didn’t build it because I wasn’t getting paid to but I can see the bridge has issues because even the engineer admits it does.

You're right

It’s easier to complain about something, or someone, than to actually come up with answers yourself.

I'll take that as a sarcastic response....sort of what expected as I stated in my original post

I can give you three right off the bat

Never would have signed Sheed. Never would have given the MLE to JO knowing his history, never would have traded Perk knowing I was putting all my chips on the two nursing home twins JO and Shaq. I would have come up with a bit more money and I would have had more money because I wouldn’t have wasted somewhere else..

How’s that Mr Christmas?

Ok, so what would you have done with that money?

What talented young player would you have brought in? I mean, Sheed, JO, and Shaq were brought in as bench pieces(at the time), meant to back up an experienced starting 5. Perk was traded trying to bring in some youth. I just don’t see the young players you clamored for in your post somehow being available to this team. If I’m wrong, please, let it be known.

Here, I'll make it easy.

I hate re-posting, but I’ll make an exception since this is a basketball blog.

As a former laker fan...

I was a laker fan before Kobe started ball-hogging, but I do remember the the playoffs a couple years back and thinking that “Rondo” is the Lakers best weapon because essentially we don’t have to guard him, thus making whoever else had the ball on the celtics double teamed.

When Rondo was out this year it seemed your chemistry improved and since you do have allen, pierce, and garnett, i think you should have more of a “pass first” point guard that facilitates better than Rondo. Either that, or the plays should be setup to go through Pierce first so he can get the offense going.

Ainge traded your center which was ridiculous, so he needs to stop talking.
Rondo is so unpredictable, can’t close games, and doesn’t understand that your offense runs better through PP because he actually can make others around him better.

I am having some serious issues with the reply button today. Oy!

The post below was suppose to be a reply to you.

Rondo isn't a "pass first" PG?

Really?? He has averaged 10+ FGA per game twice in his career(including this year), with a career average of 9.3 per. In comparison, Steve Nash has a career average of 10.8 per, and John Stockton had a career average of 9.3 per(with a drop off in attempts during his later years). If Rondo isn’t a “pass first” PG, tell me, who is?

yes, but

lately he seems to shoot first. I’m just going on this season where the last couple games Rondo is shooting more and it throws rhythm and chemistry off.

I would actually think he’d be better off the bench if anything. Let the big 3 play at their own pace and run things through PP.

Then, when you bring in Wilcox you can also bring in Rondo.

Nonetheless, I’m pretty sure Rondo should be traded for a different piece.

We essentially have ONE good young player

and for some reason, THAT’S the guy you want to trade. Yeesh.

He's second in the NBA in assists per game this year(9.5per).

Behind only Steve Nash(10.9per).

you WERE a Lakers fan

……. sounds to me like you still are! RONDO IS NOT THE ISSUE! Bring him off the bench?? WTH???? Fans complain that he can’t shoot, he scores more and they complain that he’s shooting too much. If he runs, it’s a one man break, he should slow down. If he waits on the older vets, why isn’t he running. Rondo is a part of the solution and a part of our future if Ainge is smart.

yes, but

if you look at your best victories this year, they come against the Magic (twice) and the Pacers. Those games were when Rondo were injured.

If you like point guards who can’t shoot and thus can’t spread the floor for the other 4 players on the team, then have fun with Rondo.

However, i’m sure pierce, garnett and allen don’t appreciate being double teamed because their point guard can’t bring his defender out.

Trade

I expect a trade, if we’re not contending we should blow it up. I’d rather not make the playoffs after trading some vets for young athletic players to run with rondo than get killed by miami or chicago .

I’m not upset by Danny’s management of this team. Barring uncontrolable Knee injuries to kg and perk, celts could have easily had three rings. But that’s the way the ball bounces, unfortunately. If you don’t believe me, ask Tom Brady. Anyway, I think the best we can do is chill out, let those contracts expire, and take it from there. My only real grievance is the way doc has been handling Moore and jj.

I like the plan

Ainge seems to have for this team. It is easy to find fault with him, BUT nobody complained when he put the Big 3 together. Well, guess what? The Big 3 didn’t come cheap. When you tie $40-60M per year to get 3 HOFers, you pay HOFer prices also. I say let the contracts expire, offer a cheap deal as bench players to KG and Ray and ask PP to rework his contract. See what we can get with max money, if nothing seems to fit, use that money to rebuild with YOUNG, atheletic bigs and find help in the draft. Package our picks along with a bench player or two and try to move up in a deep draft. Forget Gasol, D-Will, AI, and the gunslinger from the Wizards. Build around Rondo, bass, and maybe Green. It’s OK to keep PP, but at a more team friendly price. Nobody is saying Rondo is our “go to” guy on offense, but he is our QB and our future. He is a PG, not a 2. Give him some weapons.

We cannot ask PP to rework his contract. .

There is some rule against it. I’m not sure what the name of it, but i’m sure it exist.

Are you sure that's correct?
The new CBA says

You can rework a existing contract only by extending it. And the rule is simply that if a contract is extended, then the salary in the first year of the extension can’t drop by more than 40%.
So we can’t ask PP to rework his contract.
Only way to get rid of his salary is using the amnesty rule, and we wouldn’t recieve anything (player) back from it, besides the cap space…
I wouldn’t do it.

i'm not so sure I wouldn't

do it. I am a big Truth fan, but he’s not in our future moving forward and especially at that price.

I'm a big Pierce fan also.

But the thing is, we have to make a choice: Keep or trade him.
I don’t think the Amnesty Rule is an option in this situation.

I like the Big 3...

… I love KG’s intensity, Ray still has the best looking jumper maybe ever, and PP is still a decent scoring SF, BUT, nobody should be exempt if it makes the Celtics stronger. Everyone has a favorite, mine is Rondo for obvious reasons… he is a top tier PG, our youngest starter, and QB of our future.

I tottaly understand your point.

But, going further in my two cents… I would keep Pierce.
Earlier this season I thought he was washed up.
Some games after that he returned to his shape and showed that he still has something in the tank.
You can ask me – For more two/three years?
And I would reply – I dont know, maybe coming from the bench.
But I think he would be a key piece to attract free agents in this next offseason
(Along with Rondo + Doc + KG and Ray with cheaper deals)

"We're not a contending team right now"

Nice one “at least I’m not Otis”. Way to be captain obvious. Like Po said above, you built it, so stop complaining.

Personally, I’m not overwhelming concerned “we’re not contenders right now”. Last time I checked the playoffs don not start until April/May. There is still time for the guys we have to turn it around. And, I suppose Mr. “at least I’m not Otis” still has time to try and get us a reliable center. Although I’m not exactly holding my breath on that.

P.S. “at least I’m not Otis” is how I will now be referring to on Danny Ainge from now on.

Since everyone seems to have a wish list...

here’s what I want. I want Bill Russell back in his prime so people will forget DH. We can have Cowens backing him up and hoping for spot minutes. I’ll take Bird and KG back at forward, in their primes of course and we’ll have two bench guys named McHale and maybe Maxwell. I’ll move The Truth to the SG spot and still let Rondo run the show. We’ll have a deep bench with young guys like a kid named Cousey and a pair of young guns named JoJo White and Sam Jones. Our newest rookie seems to have some promise, kid named Dennis Johnson, seems to have a bright future. YEP! And people would still complain. I have been a Celtics fan since the late 50s and I have seen it all.

I say go all in and try to get Dwight Howard

If we blow it up now there is absolutely no chance of winning a championship, possibly for years and years. If we add a big, hope we start playing better and cross our fingers, there is a chance. Is it a large chance? It doesn’t look like it, but it might be the best chance we’ll have for years and years.

I say make an addition, hope amazing happens then do anything to get Dwight Howard.

Howard

Offer KG, Allen and 1st. round picks for Howard and the Turkeyman we have everything else in place…..

Do you believ that Orlando

accepts two expiring contracts and two mediocre draft picks for Howard?? Seriously?

Trade deadline reality

From the article: you can’t trade anyone picked up in the off season (which is 8 or 9 players) until March 1 and 34 games into the season. The deadline is March 15, 42 games of a 66 game season. Even if Danny can pull off a trade, it is dreaming to think that anyone can come in, learn the plays, fit into whatever chemistry there is, and make an impact in only 24 remaining games. Especially since the Celts are on pace to only have 21 wins racked up by then.
For as poorly as things are going, the only trades that make sense are for LONG term improvement, unless some other GM gets a case of the stupids and offers up someone that can’t be resisted, like a Dwight Howard.
Some of the rumors just make no sense, like Rondo for Gasol. Why would you want a soft playing big man who is 32, on a team where age is already an issue. A short term, possible solution at one position by creating a possible long term issue at another position is plain silly.
Bite the bullet, accept this season for what it is, with the hope the veterans can still turn it around, and look to the off season when some real beneficial moves can be made to have a winner for years to come.

Forget about Dwight Howard. . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . Go all in to get a shot at Anthony Davis in the draft. Whatever it takes.

rondo for paul made a lot of sense

it shows that danny knew that this team needed scoring. rondo is not the guy to build around. if he did it every night then maybe but he shows up every 5 or 6 games and he’s a mental case to boot. so trade him and get what you cn get. this team is going nowhere so whether danny blows it up now or in the summer makes no difference to me

Hmmmmm. Danny seems to be in agreement with a lot of fans on this blog

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