CelticsBlog

Revenge of the Fallen

NOT SO CAVALIER

Interesting facts: in the game is JO,
As soon as Sunday we may see Rondo.
Plus Jamison and KG know each other since their youth,
Tremendous mutual respect, that’s the (lower case “t”) truth.

Q1 Tyrie can dribble, he has a game with flair,
But he’s a rookie getting calls—how is that fair?
Varejao for the Cavs started out hot,
Pierce for the Cs, nearly matched him shot for shot.

Sasha came in, some memories he must have,
Of when Lebron was there, and he was also a Cav.
When we need offense, Pietrus is our guy,
Two quick threes for him, he’s not shy.

Q2 E’Twaun Moore came out shooting,
For all the young/new guys the vets are rooting.
Pretty shot by Ray and a three by Moore,
Followed by Cs turnovers, the Cavs did score.

Great half by Ray, perfect passes each trip,
Then we saw Ray with an aggressive strip!
The Cs were inspired to start Q3,
Coast to coast for Ray, two by JO from KG.

The advice to the Cs, from Doc did resound,
Don’t let Varejao get another rebound!
RAY ALLEN FOR THREE, RAY ALLEN FOR THREE,
Cs by 21, power dunk for Cavs’ Gee.

Q4 started with the Cavs getting to the hoop,
While mostly jumpers were taken by the Cs group.
The Cavs within seven, score by KG,
Then Pierce to the hoop, outshined by Tyrie.

Under a minute, the Cs up four,
Block by JO, Varejao didn’t score!
Consecutive plays, out of bounds went the ball,
One for the Cavs, one for the Cs the call.

After the last Cavs game the Cs were glum in the locker
Losing tonight after up 21 would’ve been a real shocker.

mycelts - January 31, 2012 reply

poor ball movement and too many jump shots ... I miss Rondo

Rondo is also a poor jump shooter :p

creating shots is what I meant...if I said too many jump shots why would I miss Rondo to come back to tKE JUMP SHOTS?

taking

"Creating shots is what I meant"

Agree! :D

doubt it

ok...now I get it my bad

agreed

i love rondo but he needs to understand that when he’s at the top of the key and waiting for the offense to develop (which ~~sometimes~~ most times don’t work out) he needs to create by attacking the basket. all said and done i miss him too.

oh man, and do we need a big guy with balls or what. Our Big Three looks like The Three Stooges in the 4th Q.. they have no legs. I would rather KG not play in the 3rd and save him for the 4th.

Also why the hell isn’t JJJ playing, he’s our most athletic big man. GIVE HIM A SHOT!!!

Jartem - January 31, 2012 reply

maybe because jj weighs about 140?

+1

you sure???

Having seen him play now with the minutes he’s getting.. NOT BADDD, not bad at alll.. With KG out tomorrow vs Detriot, JJJ should see a lot of minutes again. We’ll see how his “140” lb frame will hold up against Maxell and Monroe..

To be continued. lol

Jartem - February 14, 2012 reply

Rondo

The only problem I have with Rondo is what AB has been able to do and that’s pressure the ball and have enough energy to play on the offensive end. Rondo doesn’t give that kind of pressure and he takes trips off on the defensive end. That and his terrible jump shot.

Dribbles away too much clock too..

I think all the publicity has went to his head. Hopefully this time off will help him

mdowell04 - January 31, 2012 reply

The point is

when RR comes back AB will still be on the team. They are not exclusive. They will make a terrific one – two punch, hopefully catching opponents having to make constant readjusment to the different styles. In the meantime, AB’s shot seems a little easier and will continue to improve , IMO. On the first game of the year I believe Rondo had 35 points. His shot seems OK to me…and I love the fact that he is not a shoot first point guard. He works at “team” ball.

thirstyboots18 - February 1, 2012 reply

+1

YES! also we have to think that his wrist injury is still messing with his jump shot..

Jartem - February 14, 2012 reply

that not a bi-product of his game..

That is a bi-product of Doc’s OFFENSE.. not his fault, then he has to settle of a contested jump shot cause Pierce and Allen can’t get open. (still love them but different plays need to be put in on last minute plays)

Rondo does apply Defensive pressure, idk what games you’ve been watching. Also you have to listen to the players in the locker room. Pierce said something along the lines of.. ~Without Rondo we are a good team, WITH RONDO we become contenders~ #TRUTH

Jartem - February 14, 2012 reply

That's not a bad plan for KG

Interesting . . . I wonder if it would work?

34green - January 31, 2012 reply

they should of played steamer his a good rebounder and we could of use him to box out

EXER123 - February 1, 2012 reply

Agree ...

the C’s did take too many jump shots and need to get more points in the paint.

me too

Pierce running the offense late in games is ugly. He’s playing well but the turnovers in crunch time due to over dribbling are killers.

Ugly, ugly, ugly

That was an ugly game. Period. Better step it up tomorrow against the Raptors before deciding their fate against the Knicks.

SparzWizard - January 31, 2012 reply

Awful, almost as bad s a loss

It’s inside scoring and rebounding. A 20 and 20 for Varejao. Sure he’s an ok player but thats unacceptable.

We need another center. Any center. There has to be a FA or a third string center we can trade for, this is getting ridiculous.

Whetzell - January 31, 2012 reply

SMH....

This has got to stop!!!!!

KubuliCeltic - January 31, 2012 reply

4-1 and should be 5-0 in my warmups I’ll take it!

Blackberry33 - January 31, 2012 reply

+1

I know a win is a win at the end

but this game is VERY UGLY

Karasu - January 31, 2012 reply

Can't remember a more disheartening win

Of course, the refs were DISGUSTING. Again! I hate those guys.

Meanwhile, Cs with practically NO defense in Q1 and pretty pathetic in Q4. Combined with their disappearing offense in Q4, this is not a win to engender much confidence, that’s for sure.

But truth be told, the REFS had a lot to do with the Cs’ poor game. A LOT. Why is it that Ray and JO can get slammed to the ground with no call, and any minor touch by the Cs results in an offensive foul? How do they review a play and STILL get it wrong? Whatever… all you can do is SAY THESE THINGS OUT LOUD. That way, at least the NBA knows that we know how rotten they are.

Btw… nice steal by Bradley in the closing seconds.

The offensive foul call on Ray near the end ... wow - I nearly did a Rondo on my new flat screen.

Especially after Varejao had earlier drawn a foul by dribbling/bashing hard into one of our guys.

I don’t really care which way they call it. But please, for the love of god, call it consistently!

OMG...

VaJayJay with 20 rebounds….??? You gotta be kiddin me!!!!

KubuliCeltic - January 31, 2012 reply

We had no rebounds it looked like we forgot how to block out!

Blackberry33 - January 31, 2012 reply

dang vajero hate the guy love to have him though

hard 4th quartered but a win is a win GO C’S

EXER123 - January 31, 2012 reply

Agree 100%

Again, playing down to the competition

They should of won by 10 to 20 points, but the Cavs have given teams problems lately.

+1

C’s should of maintained the lead and not let this game get as close as it did.

a win is a win

now we are back at .500

Cavs ended up a better team though

kheldar52077 - January 31, 2012 reply

They’re better than last season, but there’s a lof of bad teams in the east.

.500 in February

woohoo

…I guess

its probably going to be good enough for the six seed

we need to capitalize on the Magic's disarray and get that 6th!

…or hope/wish/pray that the Pacers get a slump too and get fifth before the playoffs… I think that’s the best and realistic target we can accomplish at the end of the regular season… go for 5th ;)

Or...

Get the #4 seed and play it out just like in 2010 playoffs!

SparzWizard - January 31, 2012 reply

If there's such a thing as a "frustrating win", this would be a perfect example.

I hope Rondo can come back asap…. As much as, in general (4-1), they are playing well… we need our primary court general to facilitate a better “closing”.

But heck… I say this is the start of a new win streak :D

5-2 without Rondo

haha yeah my mistake... I was gonna edit it but... yeah... too late hehe

Some folks know everything on here or at least think they do!

mdowell04 - January 31, 2012 reply

Thanks. Was I right or wrong about their record without Rondo?

win is a win

But this team has to stop playing passive because it’s gonna be the down fall of their season. Rondo has to come back quick because Bradley running the PG will be an issue in future games.

Rebounds

Yeah, there was a disparity in the Cavs’ favor, but this is one game where a lot of that came from plain bad luck… balls bouncing just so, made rebounds that popped out, etc. Have to say though, JO seemed pretty weak out there for most of this game, on defense.

disagree a bit - for _most_ of the game, our defense (especially with JO out there) was very, very good.

Going into the 4th, we were holding them to around 40% shooting and were throttling them.

It was just in the last half of the 4th that suddenly the Cavs started either making every shot or Varajao was crashing every miss for a put-back.

But even then, towards the end, JO rose to the occasion – making a couple of nice 10 ft jumpers and of course that key block of Varajao.

If I was to single anybody out on defense it would be Brandon Bass – he is terrible at blocking out. he needs to stop always trying to go for the rebound himself and instead make sure his man is blocked out.

ill take sideshow on my team any night of the week WOW.. that man can play

David Henderson - January 31, 2012 reply

We also missed a lot of easy looks

while the Cavs hit a ton of contested shots. Granted, I think the real story was our many lazy passes and play on the offensive side, leading to easy turnovers and buckets for the Cavs, but we also just missed a lot of shots we should be making…and they hit a lot of shots they probably won’t hit most nights (especially Varajeo).

guy incognito - January 31, 2012 reply

Do we have one.....

Inside Offensive Play? One? Uno?

up two.. minute left they went to KG in the post..

Unfortunately

inside the paint offense for the C’s is a team weak point this season.

We've become a jump shooting team

We won’t much in the paint unless. Don’t get me wrong, I know we can always use Rondo’s kamikaze layups.

What was I trying to say here?? Lol

No problem...

It was a bit tough to make out what you said..lol, but I get your point and agree fully.

Lol

redbridge13 - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

ray ray

the oldest celtic played the most minutes and he was missing his shots in the late quarter the Cs almost lost again glad they won this one

nox45 - January 31, 2012 reply

Ray didn't get his shot going until late -but I thought he actually played a pretty good game

through much of the game as we built the big lead, Ray was consistently attacking the hoop and passing out, generating points, ‘Rondo style’. Ray posted 8 assists.

He also had a couple of key steals.

That was close....

I thought the C’s would let this slip away, but they held on for the win.
It was not pretty but a win is a win.

Varejao always seems to play well against us as he had yet another great game.
Hate to say it again but he sure would look great wearing Celtic green.

If he would play like that as a Celtic, it would be great to have him.

lygafe - January 31, 2012 reply

A pathetic 4th quarter for the Cs- it looked like every time the Cavs threw something up, it went in.

A sloppy, sloppy game- can it be emphasized enough times? The Cs were turnover prone, and nobody managed to stop Varejo from constantly picking up the rebounds- offensive and defensive- he almost single-handedly kept them in the game.

However, the bottom line is- a bad win instead of a 2nd really embarassing loss, which really would have been hard to take after being up by 25 points at one time. [ shades of Orlando falling apart ].

Lygafe.

Lionel gaffen / Fotomix.

lygafe - January 31, 2012 reply

Avery Bradley

Is there any reason to leave Bradley in for 37 minutes including the fourth quarter when he is not playing any better defense on Irving than the rookie Moore? The Cavaliers were basically playing five on four for most of the game. Bradley cannot pass, cannot rebound, cannot shoot a jumper, cannot drive to the hoop without being rejected. I noticed over the years Doc will not play rookies unless he is forced by injuries to do so . Anybody remember Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes?

BigAlbert - January 31, 2012 reply

Bradley is a Good Defender, Moore is a Good Shooter

Doc knows what he is doing
and we WIN period

But he’s awful offensively and that will not cut it in this league.

wanna know why Bradley is playing?

1 turnover

coaches like “safe” players

Really Jeff?

1 turnover tonight, but what about the next games?

1 turnover in the last game as well

1 turnover

He has one turnover because he dribbles over halfcourt and passes the ball to the first Celtic he sees and then disappears. That’s a point guard???

BigAlbert - January 31, 2012 reply

i think we all agree

that bradley is still not a true PG. like i said he’s a work in progress. only played avg 5mins last season. come on ! you noticed the assists tonight were spread out among players. thats how you compensate on his weakness.

no, that's just better than the alternatives

plus he plays a little D

stone hands, can't shoot, but I like him....he is all heart and 100% effort

Pietirus is someone I am not yet sold on….and Wilcox as well…..don’t hate em but not overly impressed…especially with Wilcox

Yeah, Wilcox seemed pretty lethargic in this one

Wilcox is inconsistent

that was his rep I guess so I’m kinda down on him so far

Pietrus I think is just limited to a couple of roles, which he largely plays well

Wilcox is playing exactly the way his rep said he would play

Pretty much wasted money

a week ago hes one of the best on ball defenders in the league, now he plays a "little" D?

Sarcasm

(Hard to detect sometimes.)

JR99 - February 1, 2012 reply

+1

Jeff Clark - February 1, 2012 reply

He's a PG on defense. An extra SG on offense.

He actually had a couple of very nice plays on offense. That play near the end of the 3rd where we in-bounded with under 3 seconds on the clock, KG passed to Bradley and he curled across the paint for the layup was sweet – that’s a taste of what this kid should be able to do as he gets more and more confident.

Yes, but a shooting guard who can't make a jump shot

He'll make them. I am very confident that his shot will come.

In the mean time, his defense is keeping him valuable. Since he’s been playing more minutes with the top-rotation, he’s been posting some unbelievable defensive ratings with those units.

agree with jeff

he will not go shooting 10 FGA. he plays defense. thats what he does. he’s still a work in progress. remember its only his 2nd year. give him a break.

I agree

Play Moore. Bradley isn’t that good defensively anyway. He’s not Tony Allen. Doc should get over it. We need more offense and Moore provides that.

Thing is, Doc knows that if he doesn’t lay Bradley he’ll go post his despair on twiiter…. “fml”

I wonder about Rivers and Ainge judgement because I don’t know what they see in Bradley? I think he’s an awful offensive player with mediocre defensive skills.

MEDIOCRE???

Couldn't agree less

Bradley has world-class defensive skills, which very few others have.

WORLD CLASS???

Wow. OK.

not mediocre.. not world class.. how bout a very good defender

He’s a very young player and a work in progress, but I already like Moore’s game more, and I think he’s what this team needs off the bench behind Rondo.

Yep, world-class on the ball defender

Really

Bradley has been taken to class the last two games

give him time

the more playing time he has the better

agree

+2

Thats what young players need, time to play, learn and grow.

They will at times play well, as Bradley has done and at times will not play well as Bradley has also done.

But each and every game is a learning experience which will only help make Bradley a better ball player.

Have you paid attention to what Kyrie Irving has been doing this year?

He has scored in double figures in 18 of 20 games this season!

Other than a 2 of 12 performance in his very first game and a bizarre 1 for 7 shooting performance against the Knicks a few days ago, he has been basically unstoppable. He’s scored over 20 points in 10 of those 20 games. His TS% is an un-real 59.9%!!!

Basically, he’s tossing everything into the hoop. ’Dude is on a stretch that very few players ever go through.

I thought Bradley played him about as well defensively as you can hope to play him. He kept Irving relatively quiet until the last 9-ish minutes of the game when Irving inevitably erupted to score 11 of his 21 points.

And 3 of those points came on that last, uncontested 3PT shot.

+1

Bradley did good work on a very, very tough cover. Avery did try to start his full-court pressure D on Irving at one point, but the ever-ridiculous refs shut him down, so he backed off a bit.

Kyrie Irving is going to be a top 5 player in this league very soon. I am thoroughly impressed with his savvy and composure.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Cs would have a top three pick one of these years, without being a lottery team, of course? The luck of the ping-pong balls.

Our last decent pick was a no.5 in a lottery year, which brought us Ray Allen, which in turn led to bringing in K.G, and banner no.17.

Just imagine drafting a Bird or Russell type of player, to go back a bit in Celtics lore.

One can dream.

its not all about him

our pick and roll defense was bad at times. Bass still looked like the odd man out

Karasu - February 1, 2012 reply

thats not to say Irving is a terrific player

he shoots at a GREAT percentage night in and night out. The rookie is amazing.

Karasu - February 1, 2012 reply

missed "NOT" in the first line

thats not to say Irving is not a terrific player

Karasu - February 1, 2012 reply

We gotcha!

And I totally agree about Bass. Bass is still trying to use his athleticism too much on defense. He keeps playing run-and-recover, thinking he can catch up to an attacker and also after the shot he’s trying to go after every missed shot as if he’s our only rebounder. He needs to be thinking anticipate-and-position both in terms of taking charges and also in blocking out opposing rebounders.

He’s a weapon on offense that I am thrilled to have, but we need him to pick up a better understanding of how to play our defense.

He appears to be out of position a lot, and KG can't cover for him anymore when they're together.

He's a smart player, and a tremendous athlete

and obviously is a willing hard worker (look how much his offensive game has improved each year).

But he needs to now apply that smarts and hard work to playing team defense, Celtics-style.

Again, this is a team in progress, with a lot of new players to fit in, as we all know by now.

I believe that by the break, the newbies will have fit in seamlessly, providing that injuries are kept to an absolute minimum [ always the key to moving ahead ], and team defense will be at an elite level once again.

Yes.

I see these ‘areas of valid criticism’ as reasons for hope – because there are reasons to think these things can improve.

that last play

where he swat the ball out of irvings hand is one heck of a defense.

Avery made that key steal in the final seconds

That may have won the game. Also, he’s pretty solid cutting to the hoop. Still some boneheaded plays from time to time, which hopefully will improve with PT.

If big men like Varejao and Grotat can be effective against the Celtics, then what does this say about the C’s defense. Still I a work in progress? I think it’s about that time Danny Ainge looks for a decent center. Also the C’s need to get a back up PG with solid offensive skills, because Bradley limited offense will hurt this team.

Couldn't agree more

Maybe we should get Gortat or Varejao!! Oh yeah, we are too worried about a cap space that won’t get us any superstars, bah!

I still say... get back Semih!

I know… he’s not better in all ways than whoever we want… but he is a center who is already familiar with our game… and has given the C’s quality minutes…. and best of all, he is a realistic catch for this season with nothing much in return.

Id like to get Erden back..

as I think he was a serviceable big who has potential to grow.

He was quoted the other night that he may want to come back to the C’s after his contract is up this year with the Cavs.

Danny always liked him, so I wonder if he will attempt to get him back?

I really hope so...

I still remember him battling it out for the C’s even with that injured shoulder… I wouldn’t be surprised if we get him back before the deadline. We’re just approaching 1/3 of the season and I’m certain JO will be injured again (hopefully, minor ones only) or given rest so as to not aggravate existing injuries.

More likely as a FA pickup next summer since he'll likely be pretty cheap to sign for.

And there is, unfortunately a high chance we lose Brandon Bass.

I'm in total agreement re: Erden; if he's now healthy, get him back.

I think...

the Steamer can help the C’s and wished the C’s would give him a real test run.

The C’s need size, length and a defensive presence in the paint and Steamer can give them that.

I am not sure what Docs hangup is for not utilizing him??

he doesnt reallly have size the way he plays.. wilcox is a much better option imo.. steimesma just gets bulled over by everybody.. the guy has played about 15, at most, effective minutes in the league

I agree with Wilcox.

…and for some reason, I don’t know why the refs are always so tough on the Steamer.

Because he is a rookie.

It seems like I am the only one defending Steamer...lol

But I am happy to do it.

I think being 6’11" ,260 lbs and having a long wing span Steamer has more then enough size to handle himself in the paint.

He does need to work on his positioning and foot work a bit to get pushed around less in the paint, but that can only come with playing time so he can learn the game at the NBA level.

Though the Steamer looked good in some stints this year he has not looked well at other times due to erratic playing time.
I think as Bradley and Moore have shown, if you give rookies (and in this case the Steamer) regular and steady minutes it will allow them to properly show us there skills and talents, then compared to playing erratic minutes.

Also this team needs another legit center with size and length,
Wilcox is not a legit center, which Steamer is and does not have as much size and length as Steamer does to control the paint at the center position as effectively.

Just my 2 cents though.

Well, I do like Steamer too...

He can be effective, as he has already shown in his first few games, and you’re right… he just needs minutes to get that confidence. I just think that Doc likes that KG, Bass, Wilcox combo in the 4-5 slot better when JO is out.

im with steamer on this..

but he did lost a lot of playing time recently. i dont know why

I'm not worried about Stiemsma

He’ll get his moments.

Look for him to get a lot of minutes against the Raptors. Home games are always more favorable for the bench and he’ll be needed considering how many minutes Garnett, Bass & O’Neal played tonight.

I expect both Wilcox and Stiemsma to get a bunch of minutes tomorrow.

Interesting how the excitement about Stiemsma died down along with his performance

Gee, whatever happened to that “we-love-him-because-he’s-white” thing?

I hope that will be the case mmmmm

Stiemsma would be well served by playing in the NBDL

Though I would prefer...

Greg gets minutes with the C’s to learn and grow his game at the NBA level, if Doc is not going to play him, maybe playing in the NBDL is not a bad idea, since at least he can get minutes there and work on his game.

i think steamer with help will be a legit center if not here some were else i like this guy even if hes on another team

EXER123 - February 1, 2012 reply

There are so many back to backs coming up that players like Stiemsma will have playing time.

Fresh and healthy bodies are going to be needed as the truncated season progresses at an accelerated rate, and everybody on the roster will be given minutes, so I’m not worried about Steamer’s minutes so much, rather that the team as a whole stays healthy.

Sideshow Bob

Does anybody in the modern NBA era of pure “Street Ball”, remotely know how to box out Varejao. As Tom Heinsohn pointed out over and over and over again, Varejao is not that mobile if you tell one player to keep a body on Varejao at all times. Another great coaching job by Doc Rivers, especially coming off the last game’s debacle of “saving” his starters until the fourth quarter was out of contrlol on Sunday!

BigAlbert - January 31, 2012 reply

I'll lay the blame on Bass for that one.

He consistently left AV too early on defense, playing for the rebound when he should have been blocking out so that his team could control the rebound.

Aluminum Penguin - February 1, 2012 reply

If I was Doc...

I would have looked down my bench and yelled at my bigs – “If any of you is willing to put a body on Varejao, get in the game right now!”

If you’re quick about it, even a smaller guy can box out a much bigger guy. Sure they might reach right over you if it’s a long rebound, but you can at least give your teammates a better chance.

Exactly.

the offense

It’s really bad. We have been holding teams under 90pts. I don’t think our defense is the problem even though that 4qtr was horrible. We can’t score the ball. Doc has to do something about the offensive end of the floor. Were just not getting easy baskets no layups and no free throws.

+1

But wait for rr to come back. He’ll get that offense going again.

vgarcia890 - January 31, 2012 reply

We shot over 50%. We were getting plenty of wide open, easy shots.

The bigger problem in this game was our defense in the last 9 minutes or so. Before that, we held the Cavs to just under 40% shooting. But during that stretch they suddenly started scoring on almost every possession, and ending up with a respectable 45.3% FG% – which means that during that stretch they shot WAY higher than that.

Our offense generally feeds off our defense. But when we stop getting defensives stops, yeah, it tends to stall our offense.

we scored quite easily up until halfway through the 4th. I really dont see that at all.

Varejao looks like a scrub. Dude is scrawny, flops like a fool, and that hair…ugh.

But beyond all of that, dude’s a baller. The 20 rebounds don’t really surprise me since the Celtics’ defensive rebounding has regressed; it is definitely a problem, but not surprising because Varejao is by all means one of the top rebounders in the league.

The defense, however, is kinda inexcusable. I didn’t watch the whole game but I did see a good amount of questionable calls, but I generally assume that bad calls usually even out. The crisp rotations that have always been there are now fleeting and the interior defense is underperforming at best. The Celtics have won with defense the last three years and a pretty average to alright offense and until the defense really, really settles in it’s hard for this team to be as good as they were in years past.

muckduck - January 31, 2012 reply

KG

I really watched that matchup closely. KG didn’t block out Varejao one time tonight. He can blame in on the penetration and the help defense but the truth is he never really blocked out his man

KG wasn't really on Varejao most of the night.

Most of the time it was Bass or JO on AV. Bass in particular was terrible at blocking out.

In the standard set, KG was usually guarding Jamison.

I'd like to see Varejo on our team.

The guy is obnoxious, but he hustles.

KY Celts fan - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

His 'obnoxiosity' is directly related to the fact that he plays for the other side

Not that there’s anything wrong with that…. :)

Yeah... the more "obnoxious" an opponent is... the more we wish he was on our side. Remember Pietrus in a Magic uniform? Pesky fella! hehe..

I am thoroughly impressed with Verajao.

There's much to be negative about, but you're forgetting about the REFS

Who SUCKED, big-time, and tried their best to hand the Cavs the game.

Yeah, david stern did not want us to win that game. I was suprised Joey Crawford sent a couple calls our way though.

i love how people whine about doc not playing the young guys.. Bradley is 20 years old!!

Deja vu all over again, Jeff? Shades of the immortal Yogi Berra.

lygafe - January 31, 2012 reply

we sure need Tommy to teach how to box out BEFORE you go for the ball...we are just not getting it

2 points worth mentioning

1.Much is made of Bradley’s defense- and when he is one on one he is excellent. But to say Irving destroyed ‘him" is a bit off the mark. When there is a pick set for Irving, it immediately becomes a hedge situation- and recovery if possible by Bradley. A guy like Irving is tough to catch up tp, so ALL guards in this pick situation will have to rely on his help defender. So team defensive rotations are more important in these situations. its like saying KG’s man torched ‘him" for 25 points, when it was KG stopping the penetration and the dish goes to his man for a dunk. Thats not on KG— but it counts as team defense. 2. much is made of our tendency to lack aggressiveness when protecting a lead. Its been an issue for years under Doc. But you also have to look at the situation. We are trying to run clock, so the defense can gamble a bit because we are not attacking. As the shot clock winds down, and a play is disrupted, we take a forced perimeter shot (and repeatedly so until the game gets close). When we try to stem the tide against a fired up defense, we have nobody who can consistently drive and finish. Add to that, the lack of rebounding and it is no wonder we can’t protect a lead unless we are hot from the perimeter. Its pretty simple— and predictable.

Also

3. Stats are misleading. You can’t judge our defense on opponents points. Because we play a half court game, and we run back as soon as we shoot, we limit the possessions of both teams. You have to look at points per possession to get an idea of your defense. We shot 52% last game, but still scored only 87 points. If the Heat shot 52% they score 120. Its about possessions.

All very good points, P stuff.

I concur on all of them.

'P stoff'

Man – I wish we could edit our comments on this blog to fix typos!

thanks

me too…

You can, sorta

…by hitting Preview first.

Yeah, but I usually only do that on longer posts.

And even then, it’s inevitable that I miss something. Sigh …

So are you saying Ray's return has contributed to Irving's success against the C's?

clover - February 1, 2012 reply

Uh? I didn't get that from his post at all.

i’m a celtics fan to the end and won’t give up on them but these last 2 games really stunk- yeah they win tonite, but… ray was horrible on d in the 4th quarter. sessions was passing him with ease. we win because pp only made 1 turnover, versus 7 the other night but is anyone else tired of the o running thru him? please get healthy rondo. i am tired of kg slapping at rebounds and not going for them with 2 hands-inexcusable. compare varejao moving with kg moving and there is an ocean of difference. pietrus looked sloppy with the ball slow to react to open men and looking for his shot only. the problem is not bradley or moore but they do have a heard time penetrating. there were openings for both to go to the hoop but they go to pp.bass was slow to body varejao on d in half one. all that being said, ray was good for 3 pds. pp won the game by penetrating and bass and kg made key shots. doc needs to play sasha more. jo was way more than a zombie and did make that key block. irving is an all star right now and andy v. as well and gee has some hops. the cavs showed more life than the c’s.

nazzbo - January 31, 2012 reply

count your blessings...

be happy with the win..get over it guys..next..

greenlion - January 31, 2012 reply

If the reports are true...

Rondo will probably be playing against the Knicks… and boy, I don’t want to lose against the Knicks… again! Oh and yeah, the Raptors are a Cavs type team too (standings-wise) who, I hope, the C’s take care of.

Rondo!!!

We need Rondo. Plain and simple

Clench - January 31, 2012 via mobile reply

https://twitter.com/celtics

Bass on KG’s big hoop late: “KG is probably the most unselfish player on the team, but when his number is called he comes through for us.”

no we need new younger athletic guys who attacks the rim more and relying on jumpshots most of the time.

we dont need ray allen and KG nxt year even if they come cheap. Time for a total rebuild get younger and athletic guys. Ray allen is pathetic time to retire ray ray your career is over.

i mean not relying on jumpshots most of the time we need young athletic guys who attacks the rim.

damn

That is just so ... out there.

I could not disagree more with your comments about Ray & KG.

It’s especially strange since in this game, Ray was one of the few guys consistently attacking the rim!

That’s why he generated 8 assists tonight! He was basically playing the role of Rondo in this game – attacking the rim and then passing to the open man when the defense collapsed.

+1

agree

p-peazy - January 31, 2012 reply

And Doc said post-game that it was their plan to have Ray do exactly that

Yeah - I kinda wish we had continued to do that in the last few minutes of the game.

Instead, since we were determined to use up clock, we kept bringing it up slow and having PP set from outside – and that allowed CLE to then swarm him frequently.

As P stoff points out above, that took us out of our offense.

We really need Rondo in order to execute that ‘late game half-court’ offense properly because a) defenses have a much harder time swarming Rondo and b) when they do he inevitably makes the lazer pass to the now undefended Paul or Ray, moving off the ball.

Whoa

Not sure RA is that bad…. but keeping both could inhibit younger guys from developing. However, if we signed two “attackers” next year, RA and KG could be good 2nd unit guys provided that they were not the FOCUS on offense.

you still want ray and KG nxt year? for wat? to teach young guys how to jumpshoot and throwing bricks?

KG and allen is done we dont need them anymore.

you on drugs ?

Just wondering the same thing.

Blackberry33 - February 1, 2012 via mobile reply

Uh, I don't think so

No

I prefer the young athletic route (or trade for up and coming potential talent)— but if we can’t fill all those spots- we could do a lot worse than them for the MLE.

the reason why dwight dont consider boston or cp3 perhaps is because were surrounded with these veterans as long as allen garnet is stil on the celtics roster dont expect top free agents will sign in boston.

im jst stating facts here dude. We can no longer win championship with ray ray, pierce and garnett its time to trade them.

A win is a win

I can’t complain, but they got comfortable there again in the 4th. This time KG hit a big one, JO had a nice defensive stand, Pierce was aggressive and we hung in there.

Anyone saying Ray is too old has to know he never was a acrobatic slashing D-Wade type at any age, he plays a different game. He’s still playing great basketball.

Plus I don’t know if you can remember we already have one of the best “attackers” in the league who is injured right now, Rajon Rondo. Attackers need shooters to spread the floor.

Would have liked to see them finish the blowout but I’ll take the win.

p-peazy - January 31, 2012 reply

Methinks... If KG and Allen agree to (and most likely will) sign for a vet-min & come off the bench...

…I’m pretty sure they’re keepers. But then again, if opportunity presents itself to acquire strong players with any or both of ‘em as trade baits, then I’m sure too that DA will not hesitate to pull the trigger. I’m talking in terms of the off season by the way.

my point exactly

Doubt the vet min, but a big, big dropoff, for sure

KG and Allen are not Vet-min kind of players we all know that even at their age now, not yet

maybe 2 years from now.

celtics2011 - February 1, 2012 reply

Yes

but if they desire to retire a Celtic, as we have heard, they need to work with the team. They have made their money… so i doubt that is a huge factor. Its more about pride, i think. The team approach depends on Bass (resign at big cost?), Pietrus (resign) Green (1 year prove it to me contract), and if we need to deal any of the young guys for a big man. My prediction is, if we struggle at the trade deadline, we might get our best value out of Bass. it pains me to say, but he will cost a bunch next year based on his playing ability. I would keep him in a heartbeat if we could pair him with a great rebounder (Jordan/Bierdrens/etc), but without that, we might have to ship him to Minny, Sac or Utah for some bigs— they would value his versatility too.

P stoff - February 1, 2012 reply

I happen to believe in this year

I think we can take it all the way this year; after that I’ll start thinking about next year.

p-peazy - February 1, 2012 reply

My point

If you say that they are too old to be the main players on a championship team – no argument. But they could still be a good in a supporting role. Older players are numerous around the league, and fill voids for good teams. None of these guys are pathetic— but your grammar could use a tweak.

I wouldn't write them off quite yet

Let’s see what this season brings

Good points

P stoff and I would add to what you said that the C’s lack a true post player to run offense through which would help them especially in the 4th quarter. Right now there defense isn’t elite quality enough. Maybe Ainge can trade for some but we don’t have it currently. Old age.

celty86 - January 31, 2012 reply

Agree 100%

with your comment:

" The C’s lack a true post player to run offense through which would help them especially in the 4th quarter"

Having just one solid in the paint scoring presence can make a world of difference and make the C’s so much tougher to beat as Shaq proved last year with the in the paint scoring presence he provided.

Whats frustrating is that the C’s do have players who can score in the post like JO, KG, Wilcox even Bass but either the players do not want to go in the paint enough or Doc does not want to set up the offense to see to it they get in the paint more often, which I think they should be doing for the good of the team.

Thanks- and yes

A post option is a must for most teams (minus the heat, maybe). For us, getting bigger is a need on both ends. We play a low altitude game right now—- and it makes us need to be almost perfect in execution in order to beat good teams consistently. The problem is that there seems to be few of these players available in FA- and trades require sending someone else some talent.

David Henderson - February 1, 2012 reply

MP only 18 minutes
Moore 11 minutes
I would like to see these guys get more minutes. Moore’s scoring ability could really help this team. Bradley is still a limited player.

forever_green - February 1, 2012 via mobile reply

Maybe we should try having players rotate like line changes

Have a first unit of
Rondo
Moore
Pietrus
Bass
Wilcox
And a second unit of
Bradley
Allen
Pierce
Garnett
Oneal
Basically what this would create is our first team would let rondo control the ball and he can drive and kick to one of the two good shooters or get it to bass who is a good shooter and we would be a little small but fast and good at shooting. Then we bring in the second bigger unit that is slow efficient and let the offense flow through pierce. The only tweak I was thinking is switch Garnett and Wilcox so that Garnett and oneal arent on the floor together

JuJuan some moore - February 1, 2012 via mobile reply

Reality may be that the three are tired at the end of the games

Getting to be a pattern.

Doc should handle their minutes differently. He is trying to control the minutes but the three are literally scuffing up and down the court.

Bench team of Ray + Bass, Wilcox, Pietrus, Bardley has been good on a few outings now…far better than last year’s version of same….Moore can come in an shoot which the celtics have not had since Posey.

Big three look slow….use the bench more? Doc’ll never do it.

tstorey1 - February 1, 2012 reply

+1

Use the bench more!

Definitely bring Ray off the Bench…. why does Ray play the most mins? Doc?

And how about we practice some OFFENSE for change…… Plays designed to get INSIDE looks???

Remember losing 5 in a row?

I learnt my lesson and I’ll have no complaint with this one. It is an ugly, ugly win, but I take it. I rather winning ugly than losing pretty.

That said, man, do the Celtics need a true/legit center who can rebound. It seemed everytime the CAVs missed a shot, the rebound automatically went to Vj or the basl was kept alive by him. I think the Raptors is the only team with a worse inside presence than the Celtics.

getthat18now - February 1, 2012 reply

agree with the raptors

last time, JO scored bunches on this team.

he will have a double-double tomorrow

Dantuts - February 1, 2012 reply

Off topic

I heard Rasheed Wallace wants to be a Laker…wtf?

SparzWizard - February 1, 2012 reply

i hope not

i rather see him in a clippers uniform

Dantuts - February 1, 2012 reply

Wonder if ....

… Docs and the Celtics brain trusts come to this board often?

getthat18now - February 1, 2012 reply

does anybody....

really believe this team is a contender? Contenders don’t lost to teams that they should beat. Contenders don’t lose huge leads late in games. Contenders don’t look old in the 4th quarter of games.

Like I have said before, it’s not the heart, it’s not the knowledge of the game or the championship pedigree. It’s the legs.

Well,

If they all put their acts together at the same time and if the Big 3 all turn back the clock to 2008 or before at the same time and if they all are on the same page for the entire game, then this is a contender.

getthat18now - February 1, 2012 reply

Hmmm.... then there aren't many 'contenders' left

because almost every team this year has lost at least one game to a ‘team they should beat’.

?

Have any of these “contenders” looked as bad as the Celtic’s have looked? I’d have to say no. People can continue to live under the delusion that this team is a contender but that is exactly what it is. Take off the green tinted glasses and look at this team for what it is. It is a team on the edge of rebuilding and no longer a contender for much of anything IMO.

People here seem to be under the impression that those of us who don’t think we can contend like feeling that way or like what we see. I hate it. I wish we could go back to 2007-08 but we cannot. This teams key players(with the exception of Rondo) are too old to be counted on to carry us night in and night out. We don’t close out games well. We don’t rebound well. The defense is in and out. We cannot score when we need to score. To me that’s just being realistic.

oh and....

I will continue to watch every single game and hope we win them all. I’ll hope somehow out Old Three can find the fountain of youth.

Still father time is undefeated.

So, folks are 'delusional' and 'wear green tinted glasses'

just because they understand that there are still a lot of games to play and that a lot of things can and probably will happen before the season is over?

Excuse me if I do not accept your claim to ‘being realistic’.

I offer no predictions. This team can still go either way from this point. I intend to be patient and enjoy watching how it plays out. To me, that’s being realistic.

The true voice of realism mmmmm

too many "ifs"

That’s the problem. Too many “if’s”. Everything has to go perfectly and then we have to get lucky too. How often does that ever happen and is it something we should be counting on? More importantly is it something Danny Ainge should be counting on?

10-20-20

offensive rebounds, total rebounds and points by Varajao- that’s why this was a close game. We lost the rebounding battle and gave them second chance points. If we don’t take care of the glass ( like we were doing until ray came back) you will continue to see games like this. JO is a dinosaur. Yeah he scored some points and made a nice block at the end of the game but the guy can barely move. He has no lateral quickness and unless our guards are tracking down loose balls we give the other team more possessions and chances to score. I don’t know what danny can do but we desperately need a guy with size who has some quickness and who can rebound the ball. JO and Ray make me want to break my tv.

Red2 - February 1, 2012 reply

OT - NO TO DH

Dwight Howard does not belong in Green, based upon the yahoo story this morning.

johnnymost - February 1, 2012 reply

Dwight Howard is not my idea of a Celtic.

He’s another spoiled man-child, along the lines of LBJ [ Lebron James, but I liked the sound of the former president’s initials in there ] and is looking to join a team that is championship ready, rather than having a team build around his leadership. He is a great basketball player, but I resent his all too happy attitude, win or lose.

I get the impression that he’s emotionally immature, and is looking to be loved, rather than to win at all costs.

In my opinion, the great players make their teams better, and this is not Dwight Howard.

Lygafe.

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.

While I agree with you in one sense - I'm not a big fan of The Grin(tm)

I still would not mind having him in green. With the right coaching and players around him, he could be the core of a dominant team.

Don't get me wrong; if D.H. fell into a Cs uniform without our destroying the team to get him, I'm all for it.

I just don’t like him as I see him today, and the way he’s been the past years.

K.G. is my type of team changer, which happened when he came on board. He has consistently, unselfishly made his teams, both the Cs and Minn., better.

Should D.H. get into green, he will have to mature, as his team mates won’t allow an immature clown to lead the team.