CelticsBlog

I wish Perkins the best

But I’m not a big fan of his game and I just don’t see him and Rondo forming a playoff team. I know, I know. Tough centers do not grow in trees but that’s my opinion.

Time to get over it!

Celticsdude - January 15, 2012 reply

enough already

Perkins was marginal/below average in all area except screening and scowling. If you put him in the current line-up we would have less offense, and marginally better defense (which would be negated by his lack of scoring ability. The problem is WAY deeper than Perkins. His reputation was forever elevated by the players around him- period.

P stoff - January 15, 2012 reply

forgot something

i forgot to recognize Perkins’ tough post defense against Howard – but this area is not the reason for our struggles because we have yet to face anyone of his caliber. its the teams who can drive past us and pound the boards when we rotate over (iF we do). Even Perkins isn;t going to greatly affect that situation. He was a great, unselfish team player- but not a difference maker this year.

P stoff - January 15, 2012 reply

The Perkins Trade

Gosh, I feel like it’s all been said already….but, forever a Danny Ainge apologist I will proceed…

• Last years Celtics team wasn’t going to win the Championship. That’s how “we” measure success—in Championships. So, really—keeping Perkins might have led to “well, we gave it a good run” comments BUT with the trade, THAT can become the excuse. "Perkins was traded—so “we” didn’t go as far as “we” should"…or something like that.

• Perkins was a terribly limited player—he IS the type of player—selfless, hard working, blue-collar…that every good team needs. But, his offensive liabilities and poor FT shooting made him hard to play in the 4th quarter in close games. A clone of Perkins can probably be found sooner rather than later. AND acquiring Kristic gave the Celtics a different offensive look while sacrificing something on the defensive end of the floor—a swap that Ainge felt needed to be made.

• Which leads to the idea that Ainge was “all in” after the trade expecting (hoping? Praying?) that Shaquille and Jermaine O Neals would be able—along with Kristic—to piece together the Center position. This was a worthwhile gamble.

• Perkins was not re-signing in Boston. I’ve long been an advocate when a player makes it clear he’s leaving through rumbling, unwillingness to sign an extension, or outright and blatant statements of the sort (Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul) to move that player for pieces rather than be left holding the empty bad (LeBron James).

• Which brings us to Jeff Green. Green SHOULD HAVE been the best player in the deal. I see what Ainge saw—a wonderfully talented, athletic, young, cost-controlled hybrid player who could spell multiple positions off the bench and provide the scoring punch that Championship second units need.

• I’ll end by saying—good for Ainge. The trade didn’t work out like “we” hoped but the above list of reason combined with Ainge’s bravado to not stand pat on a sinking ship makes me glad that he’s “our” GM.

Jeremyh33 - January 15, 2012 reply

i love perk however

people continuosly fail to realize the only reason we traded him was because he was asking for a big contract which we cant afford!!! we gave him a chance to lower his asking price but he refused. as such we traded him for pieces and an important future lottery pick. so can we please move on!

ZM15 - January 15, 2012 reply

spot on-

enough said

P stoff - January 15, 2012 reply

Honey Badger don't care

Honey badger don’t care…it just trades what it wants.

MaxAMillion - January 15, 2012 reply

Hated the trade but understood it

Turned out to be a chemistry killer.

I think Perk would be a difference maker on the boards. Not because of his rebounding but his toughness and ability to clear out for the other guys.

I also think Jeff Green would have helped us get a couple more wins than we have had so far.

Either way – love Perk and wish him the best.

jv_squad - January 15, 2012 via mobile reply

perkins

it just shows how average of a player he was and playing with the big four made him look like a beast. okc is no tougher with perkins than they were before he got there, very over rated player but fit good in our system, good thing there already good or you would hear much more talk about him. alot of times hes not even in the game at the end. if he wanted too be a celtic he would have signed, danny was just trying to get someone for him but this couldn’t have been the best deal, we got ripped off. theres no way weshould have settled for those guys. anyways dat has nothing to do with this team were old and slow and our bench is terrible at this time

18champs - January 16, 2012 reply

I can't believe how little people think of Perkins now that he's gone

He wasn’t a numbers guy, so taking his stats and calling them marginal or less than marginal is missing the point. With KG he anchored a defense that made up for the entire team’s offensive inconsistencies. Jermaine O’Neal may get more blocks or score more points, but he doesn’t have that toughness that Perk had, and he certainly doesn’t strike fear in the opposition while motivating his teammates by doing the dirty work, blue collar style, night in and night out. Perk was an average center at best, but he was one of the best role players in the league and he was a perfect fit for this squad. People don’t look back at Robert Horry and remember his individual, sub par, stats, they remember how he flat out helped teams win, and Boston should do the same for Perk.

Anyone saying they, or anyone, knew we weren’t going to win the championship last year before this trade was made is full of it. We were the best team in the East and looking like a team on a mission for revenge. There were more factors involved in last years meltdown, but all of that occurred after the trade, and no matter what the reasoning, we have been a sub par team since that trade.

If we could have nabbed James Harden who I hear was the original target, maybe it would have been a worthwhile move, but even without the heart condition, I think Jeff Green was not worth Perkins. Not on a team that had a legitimate shot at a title.

Basically what I’m trying to get at in this rant is that Perkins was a man-beast for us and was way more important than his stats would suggest. The mere fact that his value has been reduced to meaningless stats and his “only talent” as being able to guard Dwight Howard is depressing, but not quite as depressing as seeing him tomorrow night in a Thunder jersey. Bottom line, I miss the guy and what he represented.

redbridge13 - January 16, 2012 via mobile reply

Perk has lots of limitations.

Numbers aren’t that impressive, more of a bruiser but is nonathletic, limited offensively…. but look at his determination and passion to overcome those limitations!

The guy lost over 30lbs during the lockout period. Just shows you his dedication to not only accept his limitations as a player but to enhance and improve the things he thinks he can contribute on the floor. Those don’t show up in stats. Boxing out, changing shots, intimidating potential penetrations, making players think twice when they think they can get inside the paint, smart and timely passes.

But Danny will not pay for those. Understandable. But I believe Danny still made a mistake with the trade thinking this team would be able to thrive in a more perimeter game as well as play small ball. What you are having is an old small ball team. Players can’t contain quicker players and our own players are unable to blow by defenders to create their own shots. Boston often gets beaten on loose balls and rebounds. Players can’t stay in front of opponents. Not even KG now.

Fine….if Danny insists on playing small ball, at least get a defensive center who can erase the mistakes of others on the floor. When our players get beaten of the dribble, at least we have a safety net at center to somehow try to correct that mistake.

LarryBird33 - January 16, 2012 reply

It's definitely true that a lot went wrong after the trade

Whether keeping Perkins would have made a difference is much more questionable. But…yeah, Shaq never got better, Green never got comfortable, Wade took out Rondo’s elbow (basically killing whatever chance we had vs. Miami), Green had an aortic aneurysm, Kristic took off for Russia, and the Clippers pick probably won’t be a lottery pick. Oh, and the lockout and abbreviated training camp meant our team is probably going to take a month before they have their legs under them, making everything seem worse. This is all true. A crazy series of nightmares. However, the other point is this: we almost certainly weren’t beating Miami with Perk, he most certainly was leaving (not hating, the guy has every right to get paid, and we flat-out couldn’t offer him as much as OKC did), so we’d be where we are today without the Clippers pick or any chance of signing someone like Jeff Green.

guy incognito - January 16, 2012 reply

There's a story about DA trying to bring back Perk

With Westbrook. And give Rondo and Green back to OKC, after they lost badly to Memphis last year.

Anybody heard of this?

KingCeltics - January 16, 2012 via mobile reply

yea was killed rigth away by okc they had no intrest in rondo or green

EXER123 - January 16, 2012 reply

youare all missing the point

Perkins was more than points we had. Three 20 points a game players so .Perkins didn’t need to score just clean up but because the offensive flow keep him out of position a lot .his was great for our team .His main job was to create space to run our offense and take the lane away from opponents when they dribble past our defenders allow weakside defense rotation .Team Defense and we was the best at it .allowing Rondo and others to put more pressure and trapping more.All of that left with that trade and don’t forget the same with Leon Powe who was a great defender and rebounder

emilio745i - January 16, 2012 reply

I think people's like........

for a player like Perk clouds their opinion. Don’t make players like Perk and Powe into saviors, far from it. I’ll take an old Shaq, if healthy, over Perk nine days a week. I know, I know………. Shaq’s health hurt us. But Perk was coming off knee surgury and not exactly in the best of health. Jeff Green has the skill set to be a star in thisw league, Perk doesn’t. We talk about our upcoming cap space, giving Perk $30M would have negated that.

CelticsUKfan - January 16, 2012 reply

if....

The Big Three were 5 years younger then they are then that trade never happens because it would have been okay to pay a very limited roll player with durability issues like Perkins the kind of money he was asking for.

When you’re in a situation where you know you are going to have to replace All-Star level players in the very near future that last thing you need as a franchise is to be tied to an overpaid, limited roll player.

Remove that name, the emotion and just look at the situation. Perkins would have proven to be an anchor to our rebuilding process and everybody in their right mind knows we were going to have to start rebuilding either last off season or next.

Ainge made the right move for the Boston Celtics in-spite of knowing the fans base was going to go nuts.

CelticsFanNC - January 16, 2012 reply

His mythology is bigger than his reality, which is a fun story too.

Nothing like a good “what if” story line

johnnymost - January 16, 2012 reply

The true gauge of the value of that trade........

Is if the Celtics improved or have been better because of it. Simply maintaining status quo won’t cut it. If that is the case then I believe it’s a failure. There has to be some kind of improvement for the trade to be treated as a success.

LarryBird33 - January 16, 2012 reply

He deserves a standing ovation!

He deserves our gratitude as he was a great fit for our last championship.

He does not deserve a statue outside the garden. He does not deserve myths and fantasies to be written about his superhuman ability. He was one of my favorites but come on guys…the C’s problems being even half-way solved by Perk? Wishful and dreamy thinking…

CelticsFan616 - January 16, 2012 reply

Here's what I don't understand?

During the 2011 season, before Perkins was traded the Celtics were playing great despite injuries to Delonte and the O’Neals. Looking back I understand why the trade was made though me personally I would not of done it. I don’t see why u would trade your defensive minded starting center in the middle of a season.

I read these articles and I read quotes from Doc, Danny and others. Here’s my questions if they had doubts about trading Perk, then why they do it? Did Danny and Doc not think they would not hear negative opinions about trading Perk?

KWW - January 16, 2012 reply

Mid season trades...

…are always risky, even if you’re trading for a healthy vet. Even the most talented player is going to take time to pick up a new system. For young players without training camp or practices, it’s almost impossible. Green & Kristic had their moments, but could never be fully integrated mid-season.

To me that’s where Ainge was short sighted. That C’s team had a chance to contend. They knew they couldn’t resign Perk, but they also couldn’t contend without him. Tough decision, but like the KG trade pointed out, you want to contend while you have a chance, not 5 yrs in the future.

LuckyNumber07 - January 16, 2012 reply

Go Perk. Just another game that I hope the Celts can stay within 10

vinnie - January 16, 2012 reply

I agreed with the trade when we made it but as we now know the perkins trade

was one of the worst in Celtic history. It ranks right up there with trading Joe Johnson for tony delk and rodney rogers. What’s really unforgiveable though is the complete lack of a competent big man for this team. I know the strike screwed up a lot of things but to go into this season with Jermaine O’Neal as the only bona fide center on this roster is unforgiveable. COnsider that going into the 2010 draft we knew Perkins was out and our centers for Shaq and Jo, 2 old and injury prone centers, and we drafted Avery Bradley. Or consider that we drafted JR Giddens over DeAndre Jordan. I love Danny and he brought us a championship but he has been asleep at the wheel on the last few drafts. Not signing Tony Allen ( and this year Delonte) were also bone head moves. Perkins is 26 years old. Yeah, he had surgery but you can’t measure the impact to a game if all you do is look at his points and rebounds. Since he left our defense has not been the same.

Red2 - January 16, 2012 reply

Good Subject and many good posts pro & con

I watched, just as many above did, Perk grow from a no-hands, foul-a-minute, inept had-to-gather put backer, free throw doofus into an important cog in a championship. How do you not like a story like that.

But Danny was right. Green, a #1 pick, and a temporary center when we needed one, for a player who was not healthy, talking big contract (whether he meant it or not is hard to tell given the agents in their ears) and who reached his ceiling (in my opinion) was good value. Belichek would have done it in a nano second.

Just because someone paid Eric Dampier and Brendan Haywood stupid money doesn’t mean Danny should and Perk is in that class of centers, not above. And starting next year (in fact we’re seeing a little so far this year) a signed Perkins would not have had KG making him better. If you think Perk made KG more than KG made Perk you are wrong.

But, I will be there tonight and I will be part of a raucous standing ovation for Perk. But, in Danny I trust on that one.

Wildblu1 - January 16, 2012 reply

logic?

Vinnie, it’s made to sound like Ainge knew Kristic would fly the coop and Green would miss this year. I’m sure that’s not the way it was meant to be read. He wouldn’t have guessed that in a million years. So in some sense it was a logical move if you are an asset collector as Ainge is. We as fans weren’t worried as much about the future as we were about going for a championship last year, which we had a right to expect. Ainge, I’m sure thought he was addressing other areas of need or weakness and in his mind could still win without Perk. We won’t ever know if we would have won with Perk. We do know we lost without him. We as fans always debate moves made by GM’s. That’s the fun of it. I’m sure behind every move made, a GM has their own, however curious, sort of logic behind it. They don’t always work out the way the GM (or the fans) want it to. This one doesn’t look good for Danny but a good quality he has is that he moves on and doesn’t listen or get bothered by the criticism. He is an asset collector.

celty86 - January 16, 2012 reply

Totally agree with you Vinnie.

The responsibility, good or bad, comes with the title of GM. I will say though, the mess today doesn’t completely reside with the Perkins trade.

celty86 - January 16, 2012 reply

Jeff Clark “I maintain I would have rather let him walk for nothing this summer – just to have had the opportunity to have him in on the court for the playoffs last year. But that’s just me.”

I’m glad you’re not running the team sir, because that is an Isiah Thomasish way off doing business right there.

mcpickl - January 16, 2012 reply

final point

You can judge a trade in hindsight- so it did not work out due to some unforeseen situations and bad luck. You can’t claim it was poor reasoning, however, because potentially it was a steal for us. Both are being said here, and both are valid. Move on

P stoff - January 16, 2012 reply

Amen

Danny please retire.

KingCeltics - January 16, 2012 via mobile reply

we traded perk last year because...

we are gonna get dwight howard , history will repeat itself (the magic are not going to trade howard this year ) , but instead of going to L.A. like shaq (because they already have bynum) he will end up in boston, paired with rondo(who will avg. 20 assist a game with D-12) and another superstar player the celtics will be back next year ready to get #18, you heard it here first

wal mark - January 16, 2012 reply

Hey king celt he heard you he’s walking

juanpan - January 17, 2012 reply